The Marcus Hour | July 26, 2024 | Ep. 17 | Lien Enforcement and Assessments Collection: What do Property Managers and Board Members Need to Know

Collections is a big topic in the community association industry and one that Allcock & Marcus, LLC proudly offers as part of its arsenal of legal services.

Of note, A&M’s Stephen Marcus and Ellen Shapiro have essentially written the law on the Collections’ process.

Join Stephen Marcus and Jake Marcus for this installment of the Marcus Hour alongside members of A&M’s Collections’ Department, Ellen Shapiro and Sean Tiernan, to discuss the ins and outs of the process.  Our panel will cover the passage of the groundbreaking “Superlien” legislation in 1992 which gives associations priority in the collections process against delinquent unit owners over other creditors, the developments and changes overtime, details regarding the process, differences in jurisdictions that A&M practices in, and what to expect in the future.”

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Jake Marcus: Hello!

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Stephen Marcus: As the rooms filling up.

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Stephen Marcus: Yeah, Jake, are you dressed yet?

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Jake Marcus: And Shawn needs to change his name. Shawn, please be professional. Are you serious?

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Stephen Marcus: There are people on day.

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Jake Marcus: Oh, sorry!

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Jake Marcus: Welcome, everyone. We have people joining left and right. It’s

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Jake Marcus: It’s a beautiful Friday, and we’re here for the

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Jake Marcus: 17th edition of the Marcus Hour.

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Jake Marcus: People are still populating in.

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Jake Marcus: People are already raising their hands, eager to ask questions and discuss

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Jake Marcus: lean enforcements in the collections process.

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Jake Marcus: We have an exciting topic today. This is a relevant one and one that’s

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Jake Marcus: common in our field and condominiums.

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Jake Marcus: And just so we yeah, as we see people populating. And let’s just let’s just get right to it.

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Jake Marcus: So

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Jake Marcus: I’m as I mentioned, it’s the 17th episode of the Marcus hour. I’m here with our panelists Steven, Marcus, who is the other Marcus, or probably the original Marcus, I should say. We have Ellen Shapiro, our special guest.

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Jake Marcus: as well as Shawn Tiernan. And if you joined early, his name was

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Jake Marcus: Digby Marcus, which is Fake. It’s not his real name. Unfortunately.

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Jake Marcus: We would rather have him, maybe. But we’ll we’ll have. We have the pre, the the pleasure of having Shawn today instead. So I thank you all for joining. We’re all all hawk and markets, members.

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Jake Marcus: and all, Cock and Marcus. Actually, we’re on approaching as of August first.st It will be our 2 year anniversary.

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Jake Marcus: So let’s let’s have a clap our hands to that. An exciting.

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Ellen Shapiro: Perhaps, Stephen, it’s okay.

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Jake Marcus: Clap.

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Jake Marcus: And and yeah, so it’s our 2 year anniversary

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Jake Marcus: and we are excited to present our 17th version of the Marcus Hour, which is hoping to give you all educational pieces on condominium and hoa law and nuances of everything that we see on a day to day basis and this today, as I mentioned, we’re gonna do lean enforcement and the collections process and let me just share my screen.

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Jake Marcus: So you don’t have to

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Jake Marcus: look at our faces anymore

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Jake Marcus: above, or you’ll be able to see our faces still just smaller.

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Jake Marcus: Let me start the slideshow.

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Jake Marcus: As I mentioned.

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Jake Marcus: We have Ellen

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Jake Marcus: who is a partner at all. Cock and Marcus licensed in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. She has had an extensive career in in Condominium, and and an expert in pretty much everything in Condominium law. And really has been a leader in our field. And she also leads our collections team.

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Jake Marcus: So we it’s a it’s an honor to have her today. an active member in community associations and condos so if you have any questions Ellen is a wealth of knowledge, and and we’ll be able to assist with pretty much anything.

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Jake Marcus: I hope well, you never know. But Ellen, I know right any words any words to add.

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Ellen Shapiro: That I’m embarrassed to talk. After that I will not live up to that introduction, so don’t expect me to do it. Folks.

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Jake Marcus: Now you, you as always. i i i anticipate you will. You’ll you’ll be able to to. This is our. This is Ellen. Second time on the Marcus hour the 1st time as it related to reasonable accommodation emotional support animals and service animals.

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Jake Marcus: and that was a fun one we had Digby and James on for that, and it’s a it’s a pleasure to have you back.

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Jake Marcus: And without further ado we have Shawn Tiernan. Who?

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Jake Marcus: How do I even follow that up after the resounding intro for Ellen? No, Shawn is great. He handles collections as well. He is really the utility player for Allcock and Marcus handles a ton of different tasks.

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Jake Marcus: Handles a lot of transactional issues, such as, you know, looking over governing documents, purchasing sale agreements, and also is is in is in court on a frequent basis as well. So anything to add

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Jake Marcus: Sean Tiernan.

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Jake Marcus: You crushed it!

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Jake Marcus: Alright

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Jake Marcus: oops.

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Jake Marcus: and alright, next lean enforcements and assessment collection. So this is what we’re gonna be discussing today. I am gonna ask a quick.

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Jake Marcus: I can figure it out.

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Jake Marcus: You figure after 17 sessions of this, I’d be able to

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Jake Marcus: get the questions down. Oh, here we go.

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Jake Marcus: I’m gonna send out a question.

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Jake Marcus: as to

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Jake Marcus: what’s what what? Your, what your role is? What is your involvement with condominium? So your board member, your property manager.

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Jake Marcus: Are you a vendor counsel? Other

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Jake Marcus: we’re seeing a lot of board members. We’re seeing property managers, and that’s exactly what we expected and what we want to address today. It. This this will be, I mean, collections is important, regardless of what you’re involved with, as far as condos and hoas, but board members and property managers. We really want to get to

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Jake Marcus: the collections process. What you need to know as far as notice requirements. What you need to know, as far as timing

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Jake Marcus: and what you need to know. Just tips here and there again, we have a a expert panel that should be able to assist with

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Jake Marcus: with with giving you the little tips that they’ve learned along the way.

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Jake Marcus: and yeah, just just if you have questions during the session. Feel free to ask but we’re gonna try to get as much as we can again. Our firm covers Massachusetts

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Jake Marcus: Florida, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Maine. So we can only get to really so much just as far as you know, recovering every State and covering the details of every State. So if you have specific questions, make sure to ask your council, reach out with questions during we’ll either get to it during the seminar or after.

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Jake Marcus: And in that point I’m gonna actually ask another question as to

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Jake Marcus: what state are you in, we like to know

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Jake Marcus: who were kind of

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Jake Marcus: trying to address. And I’ve included the 5 States we work in as well as other. So it looks like, okay, we have a good diversity, mostly Massachusetts and Florida and Rhode Island

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Jake Marcus: and a couple from New Hampshire.

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Jake Marcus: So good. We have a good diversity today, and we hope to kind of address as much as we can with each state. And we’re gonna get into. We’re gonna get into.

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Jake Marcus: you know what can board members or property managers do to enforce the link with Union owners?

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Jake Marcus: What can? What is your involvement as a board member and property manager after. You know, this is turned over to council. And what was the process from there.

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Ellen Shapiro: Apologize.

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Ellen Shapiro: sorry.

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Jake Marcus: What happened?

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Ellen Shapiro: It’s not.

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Jake Marcus: -Oh.

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Jake Marcus: all right.

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Jake Marcus: And

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Jake Marcus: before we get into anything

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Jake Marcus: I wanted to go through

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Jake Marcus: how we got here.

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Jake Marcus: The collections process generally, and and I do want to cover Massachusetts first, st because

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Jake Marcus: we were thinking about it today. And

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Jake Marcus: while Florida is generally ahead of the curve on a lot of, or, you know, come up with certain statutory measures

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Jake Marcus: that kind of make their way to other jurisdictions in this regard. I actually, we actually believe that Massachusetts has a model kind of Lean Enforcement Act. In there, in there, in the in the Condo Act, Mass. General law, 1 83 a

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Jake Marcus: to that end Florida has a priority land statute, but they don’t have the super land and so before we get into kind of what the processes are

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Jake Marcus: I wanna get into. How do we get here? The collections process and the super lean generally.

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Jake Marcus: So let’s take you back to 1992

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Jake Marcus: and the 1988 real estate market. Cla, crash before that

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Jake Marcus: and you may recognize in this photo someone looking off into the distance

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Jake Marcus: is at the Massachusetts State House. He’s wearing a tie there in the middle the black tie.

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Jake Marcus: let’s introduce our 3rd panelist, Stephen. Marcus

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Jake Marcus: Stephen.

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Jake Marcus: Unmute yourself.

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Stephen Marcus: Yes, Jake.

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Jake Marcus: Is that you.

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Stephen Marcus: There, there.

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Stephen Marcus: that is me.

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Jake Marcus: Okay.

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Stephen Marcus: That would have been 32 years ago.

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Jake Marcus: Just a couple of years ago. Yeah.

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Stephen Marcus: 32.

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Jake Marcus: And so we want to discuss

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Jake Marcus: what was the reasoning. And and and, Ellen, I know you were involved with this as well. The reasoning for kind of.

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Ellen Shapiro: None of those pictures of me. Let me make that clear.

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Jake Marcus: Isn’t it?

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Jake Marcus: Yeah, alright, that’s good. Then.

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Jake Marcus: let’s hear about

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Jake Marcus: what led to this action to seek the super lane and and describe what the Super Lane is.

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Ellen Shapiro: Is that for me or for Stephen.

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Jake Marcus: Either one of you can. Yeah, either one of you can go on this one.

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Ellen Shapiro: Well

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Ellen Shapiro: back in those bad old days, when the real estate market had crashed many, many condominiums. One in particular

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Ellen Shapiro: did not have enough money to be up and running. They couldn’t pay their bills, etc, and so forth.

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Ellen Shapiro: So they were dying. They couldn’t collect their condo fees. The units were, quote, unquote underwater couldn’t sell them.

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Ellen Shapiro: and something had to be done to rescue these associations. So a group of dedicated

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Ellen Shapiro: condo lawyers and I tip my hat to Stephen there

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Ellen Shapiro: got together, and going back in the old Fannie May, if you, the old Fannie May regs right, Steven. It actually talked about the possibility of a limited lien or some sort of priority lean for Condos.

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Ellen Shapiro: and the idea was developed to codify it. Massachusetts, and develop the quote Unquote Super League.

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Ellen Shapiro: the most important issue is.

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Ellen Shapiro: and if there’s 1 thing to come away with today.

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Ellen Shapiro: condoleeen in Massachusetts, if properly enforced.

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Ellen Shapiro: can bump out the 1st mortgage. Actually, we can get rid of a 1st mortgage when we foreclose. If we have to go to foreclosure, the lien is so. The condo unit is so free and clear of the mortgage, so whoever buys it can get a terrific bargain.

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Ellen Shapiro: That is a very, very, very short version of what happened, but it’s the effect that was important, and the association started to be able to replenish their accounts. Their operating accounts restore services, get themselves onto a healthy position.

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Ellen Shapiro: and this was extremely helpful when they were also condominiums that were only partially built out. The developer no longer had funds, but the association had to keep on providing services. So it was an awful dark time for condos, and now, happy to say, after the

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Ellen Shapiro: super lean or limited priority, lean, as we call it, has been in existence for low these many years over 2 decades. Most associations, if they pay attention to the collections process do not lose any money.

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Ellen Shapiro: but a unit owner goes into delinquency, and that’s the important thing.

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Stephen Marcus: If if they add promptly.

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Ellen Shapiro: Yeah, yeah.

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Jake Marcus: That’s a good.

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Ellen Shapiro: If they follow the procedure that’s acted promptly as part of the procedure.

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Stephen Marcus: And and all I’m gonna add to the to what Ellen just spoke about, because it was

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Stephen Marcus: there were associations that couldn’t pay water and sewer bills couldn’t pay for electric. There were a lot of investor owners, for example, in the city of Boston that were mailing back their keys. Values were going in the Fenway and Austin Brighton area to range at $20,000 for a unit. The important thing to

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Stephen Marcus: keep in mind with what Alan said is, though even though the foreclosure by the Condominium Association

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Stephen Marcus: wipes out the 1st mortgage holder

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Stephen Marcus: there are under the Massachusetts Limited priority lien, which was we worked with the mass. Many of us worked with the map, mass, mortgage bankers, Mass. Bankers, Association, title insurers, etc.

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Stephen Marcus: There are, I believe, 5. Notice provid different notice provisions in the act to the lender, and, more importantly, if Ellen forecloses on a unit, and the association is $8,000, and she forecloses for 300,000 the monies after the 8,000

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Stephen Marcus: go to the lender. So

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Stephen Marcus: the lien the pro the lien attaches to the proceeds. So the lender isn’t really out all money it is next in line at the foreclosure sale, which it should have plenty of notice about.

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Ellen Shapiro: The interesting thing is, and I don’t get this anymore. In the early days I would have association. Say, if the units worth sells for 300,000, and they’re out 8,000. Well, do we get all that money?

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Ellen Shapiro: No, before we really work through consciousness of how this works, many associations, thought this was going to be the best thing ever like. Hello! The best thing is that you’re getting your money for your operating account that you need. You don’t get a windfall. So I don’t hear that question very often now, but in the beginning there was a lot of hope that that’s what it meant. But we dashed that hope quickly.

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Ellen Shapiro: because the lawyers we like to throw water on people’s expectations.

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Ellen Shapiro: So thank you.

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Ellen Shapiro: What’s next? Jake?

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Jake Marcus: So, so absolutely appreciate that that kind of oh, Stephen, one more question. Wha what’s going through your head right there in that picture?

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Stephen Marcus: David David Able, who is on the call pointed out very nicely. He only referred to David Levy, who is to the left of me as still having his full head of hair.

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Stephen Marcus: I think that was a probably an indirect comment about the change that my hair stylist has done to my hair over the years.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah.

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Jake Marcus: well.

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Jake Marcus: you’re your own hair stylist now, but that’s neither here nor there, hair nor there, but anyways to to the next point, and and I do want to point out that. Yes, what we want to get to today is enforcement of lean and liens and the collections process.

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Jake Marcus: And, as Ellen mentioned, if done properly, if enforced properly.

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Jake Marcus: In Massachusetts, you will get a super lane. You’ll get priority. You’ll jump ahead in Florida, for example, or New Hampshire. That’s not necessarily the case, and you will just be in the priority as far as the at at the time you record so what I wanna.

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Ellen Shapiro: Rhode Island does have the jump ahead if you will. Priority.

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Jake Marcus: Rhode Island has okay. Rhode Island has the jump ahead. Super lean as well. So Massachusetts, Rhode Island are states to emulate. That’s usually not the case in a lot of things. But here we we are.

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Jake Marcus: Although Florida usually not the not the place to emulate in other regards. But in condos yes, that’s neither here nor there. But before we get to anything I want to get to the fair debt Collections Practices act which is reg and and regulation F of the fair debt collections, practices act

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Jake Marcus: and this will this the the regulation F, which went into effect in Novem on November 32,021

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Jake Marcus: it. This supersedes all its other rules, and and as, as as we must say, it’s you know. Federal.

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Jake Marcus: Well, Federal law will trump State law. That’s just a general practice, and something that must be noted because this this. This new regulation does have

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Jake Marcus: some significant changes. And we do wanna note E, even though managers are not necessarily debt collectors the attorneys here must comply with the Fdcpa. So

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Jake Marcus: the important items that you know attorneys are gonna have to comply with once it’s turned over from the association to the attorney. Is the form and content of the notices. What is in the collection. Notices will be very critical procedures for contacting the debtors as well as protocols, for, like communicating via text email, etc, and other protections that are in place for consumers.

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Jake Marcus: But, most importantly, the attorneys who will be Co. Will be debt collectors must allow 45 days for a unit owner to respond to a delinquency letter.

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Jake Marcus: This has become an issue with a discrepancy between the 30 day and 45 day

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Jake Marcus: in some jurisdictions and the impact is that this could slow down the collection of outstanding common fees.

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Jake Marcus: So the takeaway here

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Jake Marcus: unit owner accounts that are delinquent. These must be, or or we would highly recommend,

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Jake Marcus: get counsel forward the accounts to counsel as soon as you can forward the ledges to council as soon as you can to get this process going the 45 days make sure you have the 45 days to move forward. And a Alan and I have been talking about this. Our whole panel has been talking about this over the last couple of days. So I wanna invite you guys a anything important that you kind of want to add to

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Jake Marcus: to what the what regulation F kind of brings in.

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Ellen Shapiro: I think you covered it very well, Jake, because the

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Ellen Shapiro: we have the form of our letters down pat, so that we’re in compliance with the regulation, but, as always, we can’t do anything till we get the account.

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Ellen Shapiro: and we’ve always encouraged

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Ellen Shapiro: managers and boards to get us the accounts when they’re 60 days, 60 to 90 days out, because that’s when the clock starts ticking. So now you have to figure well, the 90 days out I send it to the lawyer students. Lawyer isn’t. Gonna if the lawyer does it properly that we’re talking

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Ellen Shapiro: 90 plus 45, you do the math time is going to accrue. And then we have other steps that we have to take after that letter, and it’s all going to keep pushing out the timeline. The emphasis is on timeliness following the procedure and getting the account to us as soon as you can, because that lets us protect you.

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Ellen Shapiro: It’s it’s a win win, we get to do the work. You get the money.

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Ellen Shapiro: But this is less. This is.

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Ellen Shapiro: if you want priority, you have to assign priority to getting the collection to us.

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Ellen Shapiro: Not hard. But

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Ellen Shapiro: I still get associations. I get a ledger that’s a year out.

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Ellen Shapiro: I don’t understand why associations and they want to be nice. These are their unit owners and neighbors. I understand it, but giving people more time at the end of the day can hurt the entire association, and that’s what you have to keep in mind. And believe me, I’ve heard every excuse under the sun

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Ellen Shapiro: for why people have not paid their kind of fees.

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Ellen Shapiro: but

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Ellen Shapiro: this is nothing to do with the individual. It’s the work for the association and getting you your operating account healthy, so you can do all the good things.

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Stephen Marcus: Shawn. Can the property? Can the Chip property manager?

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Stephen Marcus: Because it seems like there’s a lot of additional work for the property manager, and I don’t think managers have typically been found to be debt collectors, so those concerns might be less. But

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Stephen Marcus: can they.

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Stephen Marcus: property manager, charge for the extra work they do, because there are people not paying and working with the attorney, and all that. And is that all part of the suit to recover.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah. So the power management include that.

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Jake Marcus: a lot of our managers have their own, you know, contracts with individual associations. So yeah, I would say, you know, add that into the contract. That is something you want to charge for as an additional service or service with the contract

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Jake Marcus: you know, also on, on

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Jake Marcus: kind of tail, on what Ellen was saying. You know a lot of you know.

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Jake Marcus: Trustees, proper manager. They are human, they, you know, understand? People might fall behind.

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Jake Marcus: And you know, it’s a balance of protecting the association. What you do for fiduciary duty to do. And you wanna be nice. You know, you wanna be human. You wanna maybe help people out. But you can do both at the same time.

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Jake Marcus: You can protect yourself, you know, while also still trying to work the unit owner. So just because you send something over the attorneys, it doesn’t mean it’s the end. All you know, you can still try to work with the unit owner, but also protect

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Jake Marcus: you know the funds for the operating account.

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Jake Marcus: so you know, you don’t have to choose on the other.

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Jake Marcus: Now, just.

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Ellen Shapiro: Not about it. This is more work for property managers. There’s there’s no doubt we’re constantly calling for updated ledgers, and then, you know, has the unit owner made a payment, and sometimes there’s a delta between the 2 that the unit owner made the payment, but it hasn’t been posted to the ledger. For whatever reason we have a ledger, we go forward, and then it becomes very murky. But

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Ellen Shapiro: it’s not the fault of the property manager. It’s just the system. So again, if we have enough time, we can avoid those situations.

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Ellen Shapiro: But the property managers are really in the middle on this, and without their cooperation it falls apart.

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Ellen Shapiro: Statute is only as good as the people applying it.

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Jake Marcus: With, with all the changes as far as making payments, automatic payments setting up accounts online.

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Jake Marcus: How often are you seeing discrepancies in, you know a unit owner who says, Oh, I couldn’t get my account set up a a. And are they? Let’s say, you know, you move forward with the collections process, and you send out the Delinquency letter.

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Jake Marcus: How quickly are they to resolve short of seeking a seeking an actual lawsuit and foreclosure.

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Ellen Shapiro: Unfortunately, I’m seeing more of it lately.

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Ellen Shapiro: And what I’m seeing is a unit on who set up, you know, an automatic withdrawal. Ach, account for ABC management company. The board changes. Management companies Def comes in now. They all send out notices to the unit owners with a new management company. Some of them have little get togethers, etc, and so forth.

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Ellen Shapiro: 3 months later the unit is is in in collections, and the unit owner calls me and says, but I’ve been paying.

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Ellen Shapiro: Who have you been paying? I don’t know. I pay automatically through my account. Did you notify your account that there’s a new property management company, and they said, Well, I didn’t get notice. Well, how come everybody else in the association is paying the proper management company. So that’s 1 thing where we really need unit owners to be aware. And I know management companies cover this in their introductory letters.

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Ellen Shapiro: Unfortunately, sometimes

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Ellen Shapiro: owners don’t read their mail.

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Ellen Shapiro: and that’s what happens.

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Ellen Shapiro: I get copies of bank statements. Look, there’s the withdrawal. Yeah, I understand. But maybe you should call the Old Management Company and ask them for your money, but we don’t have it. That’s what counts. So that’s where it slips a lot of times, it does, and as great as the automatic payments are when they work.

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Ellen Shapiro: It’s again, if the unit owner and I’m not saying they do it intentionally. You know, I have so many accounts that I’ve set it to pay automatically. I don’t think of them.

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Ellen Shapiro: It’s human nature.

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Ellen Shapiro: We’ve set it up to pay.

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Ellen Shapiro: You don’t pay attention to it. And you look at your checking account statement that money is out of your account statement, Scott.

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Ellen Shapiro: So if you people who pay paper checks and mail them. Those people I have no regard for. Come on! Didn’t you check your checking account balance and see that check wasn’t cashed, but the Ach! Ones I feel bad, but you know you have to check your mail folks. We can’t spoon, feed you every step of the way.

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Jake Marcus: Right? Yeah, it it definitely seems to be. Oh, especially. That’s a really good point as to when a management company changes over.

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Jake Marcus: It may be new processes that are in place that are implemented, and

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Jake Marcus: the unit owners kind of excuse is well, you know, I I had no clue. I didn’t have that in the mail. I I just sent it out as I always do

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Jake Marcus: so totally. I could see that being an issue that could present itself as far as

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Jake Marcus: now let’s say, how how much do? How often do you see?

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Jake Marcus: this resolving short of proceeding to a lawsuit or the actual foreclosure process, because I know the notice has to be sent out first.st

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Jake Marcus: What are you seeing there.

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Ellen Shapiro: Generally speaking, it gets resolved before the lawsuit, because

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Ellen Shapiro: they start getting certified mail from a lawyer.

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Ellen Shapiro: They start waking up and paying attention, or their lender contacts, and says, Hey, we’ve been told you’re not paying your common fees. What’s going on here? So it generally resolves before the

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Ellen Shapiro: actual lawsuit.

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Ellen Shapiro: The problem, of course, is every now and then you have a unit owner who digs in his or her heels and says, I’m not gonna do. I’m not paying the legal fees

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Ellen Shapiro: because I really was paying my common fees.

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Ellen Shapiro: and if that’s what the unit owner does, then

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Ellen Shapiro: we have to deal with it.

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Ellen Shapiro: We have one case in the office where a unit owner

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Ellen Shapiro: oh, to substantial amounts of money, came into the office and gave us a check for the common fees, but refused to pay the attorneys fees in the check, and we politely said, We’re not taking a check.

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Jake Marcus: Hmm.

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Jake Marcus: yeah, that definitely makes sense.

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Ellen Shapiro: Yeah.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah.

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Jake Marcus: Business also comes into play, if it’s done properly, because you know a lot of the times, because of the limited priority lien with the super lean 6, whatever you want to call it.

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Jake Marcus: You know, it’s that within that 6 month period that we get that going. Well, you know the 90 days where we 1st start going, the letter can step up and pay that priority. But if you wait a year or you wait a few extra months.

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Jake Marcus: Then it’s not gonna be wholly resolved by the lender, you know, paying that priority to protect their interests. So you know, you’ll have some leftover balance there so quickly. But if you do it properly, notify council so they can get on it, you know. Usually it’s done in resolve pretty quickly whether it’s the you know, or saying whoops sorry, or the lender saying, Well, we’ll just pay it and tack on to the mortgage.

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Stephen Marcus: Could I ask 2 questions, sir?

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Ellen Shapiro: One that I was just talking about. This was a very bad case. Typically if the unit owner only pays the common fees.

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Ellen Shapiro: we don’t want an association to be out the money they need for their operating account. So we would normally take the check. Say, send a follow up letter. Thank you for your payment. You still owe X and legal fees. If you don’t pay it, it will be on your ledger until you die or sell

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Ellen Shapiro: and

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Ellen Shapiro: you’ll never be able to get a clean 60, because the important thing is to get you your money. That was a very

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Ellen Shapiro: unique situation, where we would not accept the check, but we were locked in combat with this unit owner and many issues, not just the lead, not just the collection.

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Ellen Shapiro: And we had the full approval of the association to take the position that we were in. We wouldn’t arbitrarily say, no, we’re not going to take a check unless you include legal fees, and I don’t want anyone to think that we

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Ellen Shapiro: do that without authorization and discussion with the Board.

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Stephen Marcus: Could I do? 2 follow up questions to something? Shawn said.

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Stephen Marcus: Do the

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Stephen Marcus: you said that the lender is only responsible for the priority amounts

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Stephen Marcus: and that if an association waits too long

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Stephen Marcus: it could be a problem, because if you have a year of common expenses and the main priority is only 6 months the association could lose out in the 6 months

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Stephen Marcus: of.

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Stephen Marcus: But the my understanding is that when you file these lawsuits you name both the unit owner

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Stephen Marcus: and the lender of record.

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Stephen Marcus: I guess my question is, do you have cases where? For in order for the

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Stephen Marcus: lend it to be relieved that the suit has been dismissed.

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Stephen Marcus: that the lender pays all amounts late charges additional legal fees on the priority lien, and even amounts past 6 months in order to have the suit dismissed, so that the bank isn’t a party to a to a lawsuit.

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Stephen Marcus: And then my second question is,

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Stephen Marcus: how did the charges that the fees that you charge for this? Do associations pay as they go along, or they pay when the case gets resolved? Or how does that work.

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Stephen Marcus: elder.

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Jake Marcus: On the lab. We do the option we give, you know associations and trust the option they can pay as it goes along, or they can wait until Case resolved. And we get that and check whether it’s

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Jake Marcus: via payment from you or the lender, or we go through the full foreclosure process.

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Stephen Marcus: And then 1st question, let me make it simpler is cause I gobbled it up. Does the association sometimes get paid all that’s owed by the lender. Who can then put it on? The it’s a default on the Condominium right to the mortgage, so they can assess it to the unit owner. Does the lender sometimes pay everything, even though it’s more than the priority.

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Jake Marcus: Yes.

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Jake Marcus: that’s much, much better phrasing of that question.

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Ellen Shapiro: I think that the

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Ellen Shapiro: I certainly can’t get into the head of the lender, but it happens when I see them paying everything I say to myself, there’s a foreclosure coming up by the mortgage holder, and they want to have a clean slate when they sell.

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Ellen Shapiro: and that’s generally like 45 days later I get in a notice of foreclosure sale.

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Ellen Shapiro: The other thing that they do is if this is a 3rd or 4th action against what I call frequent flyers, they say. We’ve been down this road before. We better stop the bleeding here. Let’s just pay them because they’re just going to pay. Try, do another action down the road, and then they even take over payments

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Ellen Shapiro: going forward. What they do with their unit owner is a different story, but they will actually take over payments.

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Jake Marcus: Good. Okay, yeah. And and I think, yeah, I think, just generally, it’s important to make sure that.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah, I think I’ve I’ve

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Jake Marcus: the the the collections I’ve worked on. It’s been where you know I I see him

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Jake Marcus: delinquent over a year, and the ledgers delinquent over a year, and it’s I’ve noticed this mostly with newer clients. It’s like, Oh, we have a unit owner who’s not paying and they have never had counsel before, so they didn’t know what to do or where to put it, or who to give it to but I think it’s important, as everyone on this panel has emphasized to get it over to council as quickly as possible when you’re allowed to

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Jake Marcus: as quickly as possible. And that that so just a quick question to that point the day they’re delinquent

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Jake Marcus: in Massachusetts. Are they allowed to, or wait? It’s when the account is 60 days delinquent, according to

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Jake Marcus: Massachusetts Statute.

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Ellen Shapiro: 60.

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Jake Marcus: 60 days. Okay, so good to know. Because that is a

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Jake Marcus: I I’m gonna get to a couple of different jurisdictions just to give some examples of timelines.

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Jake Marcus: Florida is 30 days, so once it’s 30 days delinquent. A notice of late late assessment can be sent to Council takes over and run with it, but there should still be back and forth between the attorney and the manager board. As to, you know.

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Jake Marcus: updates to the ledger, and it checks that are coming in, etc. But let me just go through the general process. Just so. You have an idea of timeline and a super lane timeline in Massachusetts. So under 1 83, a section 6, there’s a 6 month priority lane over the 1st mortgage

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Jake Marcus: but you need to follow the the process as we’ve emphasized multiple. You know that. That’s that’s if there’s the if there’s 1 big takeaway. You know, efficiency. And following the process of enforcement are the 2 most important things so the priority lien is enforced by judicial process, where the 6 month period will relate back from the date the complaint is filed.

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Jake Marcus: And the priority link can be for successive 6 months period, which is a rolling lien which we discussed a little bit prior to our call

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Jake Marcus: today.

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Jake Marcus: After 60 days after 6, after the unit order 60 days delinquent, you could notify.

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Jake Marcus: your attorney hopefully A and M, or whoever you use and then A and M. Must send a notice of delinquency to the owner and lender to preserve the rights

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Jake Marcus: and a priority. Lien would include the attorneys, fees, and costs that that are are now affixed to to our our services. Priority lies do not include special assessments fines or late fees, so we’ll only it will for the most part only be common assessments.

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Jake Marcus: Our common fee assessments.

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Jake Marcus: so that’s kind of a super lean timeline, and I do wanna just

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Jake Marcus: give you a kind of a more visual chart. Day one fees do

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Jake Marcus: at 15 days. The the the no, the mail the Property Manager Board will mail out a statement with late fee and interest. Charge 30 to 45 days. Mail out the second statement and warn that the attorney will take Action

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Jake Marcus: Day 60. That’s an important date. That’s when it’s turned over to Council where we will send out a notice of 60 day lien to the unit owner.

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Jake Marcus: And then after that it will take until

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Jake Marcus: okay, that then, at the then at the 90 day, a 60 day lead to the 1st mortgagee is sent and institute legal action at day 1 52

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Jake Marcus: and serve all the parties including the mortgagees, or mortgage yours. And that is kind of the process.

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Jake Marcus: But the big date, we wanna point out, is the 60 day and then Council usually takes over and

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Jake Marcus: hopefully the unit owners will pay from there and kinda seek to resolve at that point. But anything to add as to the timeline and process.

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Ellen Shapiro: Well, I think something to be considered.

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Ellen Shapiro: We when we file the lawsuit because we’re a judicial note, a judicial state, we have to get court orders blessing our order of sale.

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Ellen Shapiro: things can get tied up in court.

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Ellen Shapiro: The court system is notoriously slow.

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Ellen Shapiro: mistakes are made, causing us to have to go back in to get an amendment to our judgment and order.

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Ellen Shapiro: All of that pushes the time out. If we’re in court. So that’s why we utilize

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Ellen Shapiro: a rolling lien. Now let’s say we’ve been in court cause. When you serve a complaint, the unit owner gets the the defendant gets 20 days

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Ellen Shapiro: notice and has to file an answer, and then they always go into court and get more time, etc, and so forth, and the court always favors people who represent themselves.

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Ellen Shapiro: Sorry. That’s a jaundiced view, but that’s the way it is.

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Ellen Shapiro: So during the clock is ticket. We’re starting a new priority lead period.

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Ellen Shapiro: but we can’t just assert it.

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Ellen Shapiro: We have to follow this procedure for the next rolling lean as we roll it forward.

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Ellen Shapiro: So a lot of associations say, where’s our money already? And I understand that. But we’re stuck in court.

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Ellen Shapiro: That’s why states like Rhode Island, which are not judicial foreclosure, have an advantage over Massachusetts. Now, that’s not asking everybody to move to Rhode Island. They have their own process and their own issues with their own, with their priority lean, but they can move much faster than we can, and sometimes management companies who work in both States will say to me.

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Ellen Shapiro: I don’t know. I got the money from the Rhode Island right away. My Rhode Island property immediately. Yeah, it’s a different statute.

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Ellen Shapiro: So you have to be mindful of these periods, and that’s why we roll forward

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Ellen Shapiro: because we.

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Jake Marcus: I also want. I also just wanted to noted out some discrepancies on this chart, which we will fix

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Jake Marcus: at. I noticed there was some the same word. So on day 75. That’s when the title examination is done. I wanted to point out Shawn Tier and does a lot of title title, work, at, and then at day 1 20 is the date that Council will send the notice of intent to file suit in 30 days to 1st mortgagee, and then so send notice earlier, if being foreclosed in mortgagee, not satisfying the loan.

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Jake Marcus: So those are a couple that are that will fix. And we apologize for that, those those errors and that. But as Alan mentioned, yes, correct, it’s it’s it’s gonna be a different process if you’re in, if you are in Rhode Island versus Massachusetts, even if they’re both Super Lane

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Jake Marcus: and so that’s why it’s really important to really realize what the notice periods are, what the timelines will look like, what’s needed to be included on the for as far as content form of the notices.

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Jake Marcus: And I wanna just on the flip side, get to Florida, which does not have a super lane.

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Jake Marcus: But they do have a priority lane which there are 20 plus States that have

319
00:40:20.580 –> 00:40:38.129
Jake Marcus: some form of priority. And again, the the the processes may vary from state to state jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We’re only going to address the States that we practice in so in Florida as opposed to 60 days after 30 days, the delinquent account can be forwarded to Council

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00:40:38.442 –> 00:40:44.210
Jake Marcus: And at that point a notice of intent to record a claim of lien can be sent to the delinquent unit owner.

321
00:40:44.450 –> 00:40:49.369
Jake Marcus: After that wait 45 days and can take to court and seek to foreclose

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Jake Marcus: And and again, before the 30 days a a initial notice from the Association is sent to the delinquent owner.

323
00:41:00.681 –> 00:41:16.290
Jake Marcus: And if the unit owner does not respond in the 45 days after the the the the account is forwarded. It. It can be a a delinquent assessment demand can be sent with the notice of intent to foreclose

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00:41:16.941 –> 00:41:23.868
Jake Marcus: so 30 day. So initial notice sent to from the association to the delinquent owner.

325
00:41:24.510 –> 00:41:32.340
Jake Marcus: then a 30 day period where the attorney is then seeking to.

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00:41:33.010 –> 00:41:45.689
Jake Marcus: you know, seeking, and a notice of intent to record, a claim of lead, and then 45 days deliquid assessment demand sent, and then foreclosure can take place just to kind of go into it a little more

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00:41:45.982 –> 00:42:03.827
Jake Marcus: maine has no priority. New Hampshire has a priority, but it’s pretty limited. And then Rhode Island, as I mentioned, Super lean so just something to look for. If you’re if you’re in, I mean, I know in New England it’s common to get into different jurisdictions. If you’re dealing with a different state, it may have a different

328
00:42:04.770 –> 00:42:11.550
Jake Marcus: priority status. It may have a different timeline notice requirements. So just something to kind of look for

329
00:42:11.870 –> 00:42:12.660
Jake Marcus: the.

330
00:42:12.660 –> 00:42:14.559
Stephen Marcus: Like. I have a question for.

331
00:42:14.560 –> 00:42:21.970
Ellen Shapiro: Whatever jurisdiction you’re in, it’s important to be getting your account collections to the attorney rapidly.

332
00:42:22.220 –> 00:42:24.450
Ellen Shapiro: You can’t let it start mounting up.

333
00:42:24.600 –> 00:42:32.160
Ellen Shapiro: because I don’t know if any State which is give, which gives a longer period than 60 days

334
00:42:32.450 –> 00:42:35.269
Ellen Shapiro: before you can so notify the unit owner.

335
00:42:35.540 –> 00:42:43.000
Ellen Shapiro: and that that’s for lawyers, property, managers, and boards can notify them when they’re 15 days out, 30 days out.

336
00:42:43.070 –> 00:42:56.680
Ellen Shapiro: But the time for the attorneys is generally set by statute, and that’s 1 of the big differences. So you really have to be careful of that. If you’re going to want to involve the attorney, no matter what state you’re in.

337
00:42:57.190 –> 00:43:00.749
Stephen Marcus: Jake. I have a question for Ellen or or Shawn.

338
00:43:00.910 –> 00:43:03.950
Stephen Marcus: I’ve heard that it’s a condominium

339
00:43:04.674 –> 00:43:09.519
Stephen Marcus: and especially in the aftermath of Champlain Tower south.

340
00:43:09.550 –> 00:43:30.399
Stephen Marcus: All over the country people are getting structural inspections, and all that association goes, and it gets a $300,000 loan and allows those who want to participate in the loan to pay it over the the loan period, which might be 5, 7, 10 years or more.

341
00:43:30.870 –> 00:43:39.100
Stephen Marcus: Is there way of referring to the loan payment? So for the kind of many of these for the ledges.

342
00:43:39.696 –> 00:43:50.409
Stephen Marcus: If you have the regular kind of many of they. Let’s say it’s $300, and then the loan amount portion is $150.

343
00:43:50.885 –> 00:44:07.730
Stephen Marcus: You don’t wanna tell buyers that the fees are 4, 50, because 300 is more more common. Is it possible, or is there any advantage of calling the loan amount condominium fee to versus anything else?

344
00:44:10.290 –> 00:44:15.469
Ellen Shapiro: Well, in my experience I’ve seen a lot of ledgers that say either supplemental

345
00:44:16.393 –> 00:44:17.540
Ellen Shapiro: common fee

346
00:44:17.730 –> 00:44:18.590
Ellen Shapiro: or

347
00:44:19.530 –> 00:44:27.670
Ellen Shapiro: loan repayment fee. I’m not really happy with that, because I think a bank could potentially fight over that.

348
00:44:28.155 –> 00:44:38.170
Ellen Shapiro: Say, it’s a disguise special assessment, but they label it with a more palatable name to bring it within the common fee

349
00:44:38.730 –> 00:44:40.239
Ellen Shapiro: and my preference.

350
00:44:40.710 –> 00:44:45.870
Ellen Shapiro: Unfortunately, nobody cares for my preference, cares about my preferences, but

351
00:44:45.880 –> 00:44:49.399
Ellen Shapiro: my preference is for the board to actually meet.

352
00:44:49.410 –> 00:45:08.099
Ellen Shapiro: amend the budget, increase the common fee. So it’s in there which, because that way protects the priority lien, and then you have to have the balance between the increased fee protecting the priority lien and not wanting to scare off potential buyers. So it’s it’s a balancing act.

353
00:45:08.100 –> 00:45:21.780
Ellen Shapiro: And I frankly don’t see any reason why Sellers can’t say to the board to the but their buyers that this common fee includes the payment towards the special assessment.

354
00:45:22.010 –> 00:45:24.960
Ellen Shapiro: So it’s the loan that we took at

355
00:45:25.020 –> 00:45:29.850
Ellen Shapiro: which gets you to the next thing, or what if they want to pay the loan off before

356
00:45:29.900 –> 00:45:56.840
Ellen Shapiro: they sell? Which is another remedy that they have. Increase the purchase price. If you want me to pay the pay it. If you want to take it with the Lower Co Condo Fee. You’re going to have to pay for that, because now I’m laying out that money, so you’re getting the increased value. So we’re going to increase the sale price. Now that is the bold, underlying statement. There are many more tactful ways to say it than that, but that’s the bottom line on it.

357
00:45:57.410 –> 00:46:01.579
Stephen Marcus: But but on the kind of minimum fee one, the kind of minimum fee 2. It seems like

358
00:46:01.820 –> 00:46:03.350
Stephen Marcus: your

359
00:46:03.590 –> 00:46:27.889
Stephen Marcus: method, which is the board as almost always the case. At least Massachusetts does a supplemental roles the readjust the budget. So it’s only one monthly condominium fee. But those amounts still have a high high likelihood that they would be part of the superlink.

360
00:46:27.890 –> 00:46:28.600
Ellen Shapiro: Yes.

361
00:46:28.790 –> 00:46:29.990
Stephen Marcus: Okay. Great.

362
00:46:30.360 –> 00:46:33.360
Ellen Shapiro: Yes, and and let me just throw out a practice tip.

363
00:46:34.060 –> 00:46:35.530
Ellen Shapiro: I’ve actually had

364
00:46:36.430 –> 00:46:52.940
Ellen Shapiro: Banks ask me for the minutes of the meeting where that was voted to increase the budget because they get a wise to it. They see a ledger that says fees 300 300, and all of a sudden, it’s 4, 54, 54, 50. What happened? Well, they increase the budget.

365
00:46:53.380 –> 00:46:54.679
Ellen Shapiro: I want to see that

366
00:46:54.890 –> 00:46:57.770
Ellen Shapiro: to make sure it’s not a special assessment. So yeah.

367
00:46:57.770 –> 00:47:01.097
Stephen Marcus: So one more question. I’ll give this to to Shawn.

368
00:47:01.570 –> 00:47:02.859
Stephen Marcus: on my fiance.

369
00:47:03.890 –> 00:47:06.299
Stephen Marcus: Can can a manager.

370
00:47:06.330 –> 00:47:11.019
Stephen Marcus: or have the board adopt a policy

371
00:47:11.050 –> 00:47:17.789
Stephen Marcus: where, let’s say that there’s a combination of of attorneys phase.

372
00:47:17.800 –> 00:47:23.540
Stephen Marcus: You have monthly condominium phase, fines, assessments, late charges.

373
00:47:23.550 –> 00:47:43.610
Stephen Marcus: Is there any method for board adopting a policy that says that monies receive will be applied to the oldest balances, so that monies receive will apply to the non priority amount any suggestions that either you have on that.

374
00:47:44.460 –> 00:47:48.700
Stephen Marcus: Not asking for a guarantee. But is it something that can be? Do done.

375
00:47:49.040 –> 00:47:56.329
Ellen Shapiro: Well, I’m certainly not a Ucc specialist, but I believe that the Ucc uniform commercial code says

376
00:47:56.920 –> 00:48:03.109
Ellen Shapiro: the check can be received in any manner. When it’s when you get it, you can do it whatever you want.

377
00:48:03.888 –> 00:48:07.480
Ellen Shapiro: You being the creditor. But having said that.

378
00:48:08.570 –> 00:48:12.640
Ellen Shapiro: look, the board can pass a rule, they can pass a procedure. They can do everything.

379
00:48:12.810 –> 00:48:27.150
Ellen Shapiro: I have actually amended trust documents to put it in the trust. It’s right there, right in the where we talk about, you know. Pay your fees, Yadda, and they are. They know about it. It. This is how it will be applied.

380
00:48:27.460 –> 00:48:28.560
Ellen Shapiro: so

381
00:48:28.620 –> 00:48:30.990
Ellen Shapiro: they can’t send in something.

382
00:48:31.080 –> 00:48:42.889
Ellen Shapiro: Well, it hasn’t been challenged. Let me leave it at that. But I think that if challenge, it goes like everything else, it was in the documents it was on record, you knew, or should have known about it.

383
00:48:43.490 –> 00:48:47.860
Ellen Shapiro: So somebody can test it. We rely on the argument that we’ve used whenever

384
00:48:47.950 –> 00:48:49.720
Ellen Shapiro: we talk about documents.

385
00:48:49.930 –> 00:48:53.490
Stephen Marcus: And and in terms of getting the unit on the vote

386
00:48:53.820 –> 00:48:54.810
Stephen Marcus: it’s

387
00:48:55.494 –> 00:49:06.290
Stephen Marcus: which sometimes sounds burdensome. In this case it might not be. If it’s explained to owners that it’s not fair, that

388
00:49:07.140 –> 00:49:12.250
Stephen Marcus: that let’s say it’s a 50 unit condominium, that 49 unit owners

389
00:49:13.587 –> 00:49:20.639
Stephen Marcus: are subsidizing one or 2 or 3 unit owners, and that just

390
00:49:20.700 –> 00:49:22.099
Stephen Marcus: isn’t fair.

391
00:49:22.100 –> 00:49:38.259
Ellen Shapiro: Right, particularly if the money is being applied to fines because they’re not good unit owners. I mean, they’re unit owners who’ve been violating the documents. That’s why they’re fines, and where you, Mr. Unit owner, have never had a fine. This is no problem for you.

392
00:49:39.390 –> 00:49:44.059
Ellen Shapiro: So it is. Pr. Is a lot to do with it with the presentation. You’re right, Steven.

393
00:49:47.120 –> 00:49:48.489
Stephen Marcus: Back to you, Jake.

394
00:49:48.830 –> 00:49:50.370
Jake Marcus: Totally so.

395
00:49:53.020 –> 00:49:59.950
Jake Marcus: yeah. So I think I think we’re, we’re we’ve gotten to mo, actually, surprisingly, we’ve gotten to a lot of what you know.

396
00:50:00.360 –> 00:50:10.170
Jake Marcus: property managers and board members should do what they should look out for what can be changed. I think a big thing that we kind of discussed very briefly is

397
00:50:10.240 –> 00:50:15.419
Jake Marcus: when a either a new attorney comes in or a new manager comes in.

398
00:50:15.990 –> 00:50:23.266
Jake Marcus: one of the 1st things that should probably be done at least as far as best practices is,

399
00:50:23.830 –> 00:50:35.638
Jake Marcus: figure out the best way to implement the new paying procedures. If you’re using a new software. Try and get people on board with sending the the

400
00:50:36.090 –> 00:50:46.410
Jake Marcus: their their payment via or their their if they’re if they’re kind of already subscribed to another prior managers

401
00:50:46.680 –> 00:51:02.289
Jake Marcus: account, and they’re sending checks there. What use does it do when a manager turns over and they’re sending it out to the the prior Manager still. So I think just changes. There are something to really look out for. I I know, when we come in as council.

402
00:51:03.006 –> 00:51:04.060
Jake Marcus: We’ll have

403
00:51:04.180 –> 00:51:06.440
Jake Marcus: trustees. Or the managers say.

404
00:51:06.580 –> 00:51:30.039
Jake Marcus: yeah, I mean, there’s there’s multiple unit owners who are delinquent. And then we look at the ledger. And it’s yeah. It’s like a year past that that nothing has happened. And then we can jump on it right from there. But yeah, ideally, you can kind of comply with whatever your state statute kind of reads, and ensure that things are done expeditiously as possible.

405
00:51:31.660 –> 00:51:38.840
Jake Marcus: any other trends that that you guys have been seeing that may be useful for our audience to kind of

406
00:51:39.643 –> 00:51:40.890
Jake Marcus: look into.

407
00:51:42.420 –> 00:51:43.948
Ellen Shapiro: Well, I have one

408
00:51:44.450 –> 00:51:47.230
Ellen Shapiro: Very often we get ledgers that say.

409
00:51:47.280 –> 00:51:48.600
Ellen Shapiro: Jake, Marcus.

410
00:51:48.920 –> 00:51:51.010
Ellen Shapiro: we I tend to

411
00:51:51.120 –> 00:51:53.799
Ellen Shapiro: order titles every step of the way.

412
00:51:54.070 –> 00:52:13.270
Ellen Shapiro: because the association may say, Well, this unit’s owned by Jake, Marcus, and I say, and I go, and I look at the registry. Well, it’s really owned by Jake Marcus as trustee of the Stephen Marcus Trust. So a letter sent to Jake Marcus is really ineffective because Jake Marcus doesn’t own the unit.

413
00:52:13.420 –> 00:52:18.769
Ellen Shapiro: and with the aging population many people are putting their homes.

414
00:52:18.820 –> 00:52:27.860
Ellen Shapiro: units. Whatever you have home or unit, or or home in an Hoa whatever into trust as an estate planning device.

415
00:52:27.910 –> 00:52:40.520
Ellen Shapiro: So you really should not rely on the name that the unit owner may have given you. It’s always best. And even if the unit owner at the time he or she bought the unit was Jake Mark, Marcus. Maybe

416
00:52:40.600 –> 00:53:01.070
Ellen Shapiro: 8 months later it was transferred into a trust and unit. Owners don’t think to call management companies and say, Change my name on the on your records to Jake, Marcus, trustee of the Stephen Marcus. Trust. So I like to look at the title every step of the proceeding. Now, that doesn’t mean I do a full title when I get to the

417
00:53:01.100 –> 00:53:03.369
Ellen Shapiro: 60 or 30 day or whatever.

418
00:53:03.770 –> 00:53:04.530
Ellen Shapiro: But

419
00:53:05.230 –> 00:53:12.360
Ellen Shapiro: you, you just keep updating it from the prior one and the other problem that you have. And this is why it’s also important.

420
00:53:12.470 –> 00:53:18.180
Ellen Shapiro: We check pacer, which is the public access to your bankruptcy courts.

421
00:53:18.240 –> 00:53:27.240
Ellen Shapiro: Unit owners don’t always list the Condominiums as creditors when they file for bankruptcy, and then they have time to file and

422
00:53:27.705 –> 00:53:31.409
Ellen Shapiro: file their petitions, and they get more time, etc, and so forth.

423
00:53:31.810 –> 00:53:48.299
Ellen Shapiro: Suddenly you’re sending out letters to a unit owner who’s filed for bankruptcy. And now you get a nasty letter from his or her bankruptcy attorney. You’re violating the automatic state. Well, I didn’t know you, client didn’t tell us. Well, didn’t you check pay, sir? It’s public access. So

424
00:53:48.360 –> 00:53:58.820
Ellen Shapiro: there are these other steps along the way, and it sounds very simple. We’ll just send out the letter. No, we yes, we will just send out the letter that we have to make sure that with

425
00:53:58.870 –> 00:54:03.079
Ellen Shapiro: getting it to the right person and not violating other laws along the way.

426
00:54:04.190 –> 00:54:06.400
Ellen Shapiro: Is that too much information? I’m sorry.

427
00:54:07.682 –> 00:54:08.440
Jake Marcus: That was useful.

428
00:54:09.995 –> 00:54:13.583
Jake Marcus: We did. Yeah, we got a question on the timing for New Hampshire.

429
00:54:15.730 –> 00:54:27.129
Jake Marcus: none of us practice in New Hampshire. But we we do have an attorney Ed. Who pra, or managing partner, who is a New Hampshire attorney? It looks like the timing is.

430
00:54:28.990 –> 00:54:57.549
Jake Marcus: I’m actually not even gonna try to guess we’ll get that answer to you, though. Now I don’t wanna mess anything up. Let’s get to another question. If a condominium manages to collect rent during a condo feed delinquency, and there is no super lean in that state, and there is an assignment of rents to the 1st mortgagee. Then, if several months of this go on before the 1st mortgagee decides to collect rent, may the condo Association keep? What is it has collected?

431
00:54:58.800 –> 00:55:00.820
Jake Marcus: That was a mouthful. But

432
00:55:02.630 –> 00:55:03.950
Jake Marcus: what do you guys like.

433
00:55:05.570 –> 00:55:12.980
Stephen Marcus: I just I say yes. If the Association in Massachusetts, if you have the right to, we have the right to collect rent.

434
00:55:14.230 –> 00:55:18.970
Stephen Marcus: I say, if the association that’s quicker than the lender.

435
00:55:19.110 –> 00:55:29.949
Stephen Marcus: then other, though they said a non priority state I would still said that the documents said that the association collector in it

436
00:55:30.352 –> 00:55:38.479
Stephen Marcus: or they do a reach supply action to collect that, and they do it before the lender. I don’t. I’ve never seen a case where they

437
00:55:38.610 –> 00:55:48.089
Stephen Marcus: blender made the Association pay the rent amounts back. But I’m way out of my league. I need Eleanor or Sean to answer that.

438
00:55:48.910 –> 00:55:55.869
Ellen Shapiro: Well, I’ve never seen it either. But I do want to make note, because I hear this question from managers all the time.

439
00:55:55.970 –> 00:56:03.659
Ellen Shapiro: Massachusetts, we do have the right to collect rent. You’re absolutely right, Steven, however, with the

440
00:56:04.980 –> 00:56:08.250
Ellen Shapiro: decision. In a very unfortunate case

441
00:56:08.630 –> 00:56:14.759
Ellen Shapiro: where the fair Debt Collection Practice act is applied to own to attorneys.

442
00:56:15.130 –> 00:56:32.319
Ellen Shapiro: It’s it’s it’s questionable as to whether or not complying with that part of the statute puts us a jeopardy of of violation, because by contacting the tenant and saying, Send us the rent, you are in essence

443
00:56:32.380 –> 00:56:35.769
Ellen Shapiro: violating it because you’re telling an 3rd party

444
00:56:36.480 –> 00:56:40.260
Ellen Shapiro: that there’s a debt that’s owed by the owner.

445
00:56:40.330 –> 00:56:41.430
Ellen Shapiro: So.

446
00:56:41.660 –> 00:56:52.889
Ellen Shapiro: just in an abundance of caution, I discourage the use of that portion of the statute unless you’re willing to take the risk of a fair debt collection practice, violation.

447
00:56:53.170 –> 00:56:56.120
Ellen Shapiro: and if you’re ever involved in those, they’re not pretty.

448
00:56:58.150 –> 00:57:07.970
Jake Marcus: So here’s a good question. It’s a practical question as the amount do. The association goes up after the legal filing. Does any refiling need to occur.

449
00:57:12.140 –> 00:57:12.840
Jake Marcus: No.

450
00:57:12.840 –> 00:57:13.760
Stephen Marcus: 6 months.

451
00:57:14.430 –> 00:57:16.760
Jake Marcus: No, not of the lawsuit. Well, I think it.

452
00:57:18.010 –> 00:57:20.610
Jake Marcus: I think it means of the lawsuit, which no, it would just

453
00:57:20.970 –> 00:57:22.909
Jake Marcus: be a change to the to what.

454
00:57:22.910 –> 00:57:24.760
Ellen Shapiro: Damages you seek at the end.

455
00:57:24.930 –> 00:57:25.610
Jake Marcus: Okay?

456
00:57:26.080 –> 00:57:38.730
Jake Marcus: And then what are what are the types of responses from delinquent accounts? What types of responses, from delinquents, accounts have you seen? And how might they affect the timeline, if any? I think this is referring to?

457
00:57:38.990 –> 00:57:41.740
Jake Marcus: If there’s some back and forth with the unit owner.

458
00:57:42.060 –> 00:57:44.609
Jake Marcus: Maybe if they request the verification of debt.

459
00:57:44.820 –> 00:57:47.059
Jake Marcus: maybe that is one of the options right.

460
00:57:48.210 –> 00:57:51.910
Stephen Marcus: Maybe if they request they maybe if they request the payment plan.

461
00:57:52.370 –> 00:58:09.919
Stephen Marcus: Gee, I’m a recent widow. this is gonna be difficult. Is there any way that we can? I can sit down. I want to pay my bills. I always have, but it’s a tough time, and I can say

462
00:58:10.641 –> 00:58:15.158
Stephen Marcus: so I defer to Ellen and and Shawn is

463
00:58:16.278 –> 00:58:21.760
Stephen Marcus: there’s no reason, despite the strong remedies, to collect condominium phase.

464
00:58:21.880 –> 00:58:25.310
Stephen Marcus: that compassion is still permissible.

465
00:58:26.480 –> 00:58:27.220
Jake Marcus: Right?

466
00:58:27.520 –> 00:58:35.449
Jake Marcus: Yeah, some there is that balance. I mean, these unit owners can get. I mean, you know, this is an important. This is an important investment for them.

467
00:58:35.540 –> 00:59:02.209
Jake Marcus: This is sometimes their livelihood when they get a a letter threatening to foreclose. That’s not a pleasant feeling. So you do wanna have some back and forth while we need to protect the association generally, it’s also important to have some understanding of the reasoning why a unit owner may be deficient or delinquent and kind of be able to work with them hopefully.

468
00:59:03.750 –> 00:59:20.810
Jake Marcus: so yeah, I mean it. It. It’s it’s tricky. It’s tricky balance, you know, complying with the statute. You wouldn’t. You wouldn’t pay if you went to a bank, and you had a mortgage with the bank. It’s not like you wouldn’t pay your mortgage. I think this is Aiken to that where we do want

469
00:59:21.080 –> 00:59:39.069
Jake Marcus: you live in a community you’re under a set of guidelines it. It’s not something to blow off. So it is important to take serious and and pay as needed. And if something went wrong along the way. Hopefully, we’re able to work something out short of, you know, filing a lawsuit, seeking foreclosure.

470
00:59:39.595 –> 00:59:43.169
Jake Marcus: But yeah, that’s kind of kind of how how we feel.

471
00:59:44.256 –> 00:59:50.209
Ellen Shapiro: Practice. Note on that one, Jake. If you are going to with board approval

472
00:59:50.659 –> 00:59:56.500
Ellen Shapiro: enter into a payment plan. It has to be in writing must be in writing.

473
00:59:57.060 –> 01:00:08.460
Ellen Shapiro: This is to confirm our conversation wearing you, and if you don’t agree with this, please contact me right away or sign below and return the envelope. I’ve been closer. There are many ways of doing it, but

474
01:00:08.660 –> 01:00:10.789
Ellen Shapiro: you can’t do this orally.

475
01:00:10.840 –> 01:00:19.649
Ellen Shapiro: and you have to have in there. If you fail to miss one month, because that’s what can throw you off balance on your priority. Lien

476
01:00:20.165 –> 01:00:22.719
Ellen Shapiro: we reserve the right to resume

477
01:00:23.550 –> 01:00:25.549
Ellen Shapiro: lean enforcement process.

478
01:00:27.280 –> 01:00:48.143
Jake Marcus: Okay, that’s good to know. Yeah, that that definitely makes sense. And and we got another question. Our board members authorized to sleep, Sis, to seek a list of unit owners from the management company. I know in Florida. Actually, you can seek both the email addresses of unit owners as well as, or you can’t seek the email addresses. But you can seek a roster

479
01:00:49.010 –> 01:00:51.909
Jake Marcus: and I think under 1, 83 a. It would be

480
01:00:51.960 –> 01:00:53.340
Jake Marcus: what financial records.

481
01:00:53.580 –> 01:00:55.594
Stephen Marcus: Be careful on this one. The

482
01:00:55.930 –> 01:00:56.480
Ellen Shapiro: But.

483
01:00:56.700 –> 01:01:01.893
Stephen Marcus: The anonymous attendee is saying, a board members authorize

484
01:01:02.470 –> 01:01:02.860
Jake Marcus: Oh!

485
01:01:02.860 –> 01:01:07.690
Stephen Marcus: Nice strong feeling hopefully, that Ellen and Shawn and Jake.

486
01:01:08.130 –> 01:01:09.920
Ellen Shapiro: Agreeing with you before you say it.

487
01:01:10.370 –> 01:01:22.969
Stephen Marcus: These records included in the list of owners everything the manager has on the property of the Condominium Association. The Condominium Association acts through a duly elected board

488
01:01:23.870 –> 01:01:24.880
Jake Marcus: Ford would have this, yeah.

489
01:01:24.880 –> 01:01:36.680
Stephen Marcus: I’d be I I would be very unhappy and surprised if you had a property manager who refused to tell you as a board member who the unit owners are.

490
01:01:36.680 –> 01:01:44.517
Jake Marcus: That that would be problematic. I think if a unit owner is requesting, that’s that’s the how I was reading that. So thank you for picking up on that unit on.

491
01:01:44.770 –> 01:02:03.569
Stephen Marcus: Brian Carroll keeps asking a question since he, even before the some Webinar status. Alan’s unconstitutional brian is a dear, dear friend of Jacob myself. So we will say that. Yes, condominium leans

492
01:02:04.058 –> 01:02:26.511
Stephen Marcus: definitely constitutional forefathers were thinking of Condominiums when the Constitution was written, and they had no problem with condominium associations being able to collect from delinquent unit owners, since they thought it would be very unfair, while the other owners, such as George Washington.

493
01:02:27.415 –> 01:02:40.289
Stephen Marcus: Not too well to be subsidizing the non paying unit on it. But, Brian, we can take that off webinar at a future discussion that maybe Barrett Sale.

494
01:02:41.830 –> 01:02:44.610
Jake Marcus: Barrett sailing. Bridgewater. Nice! Shout out there

495
01:02:45.182 –> 01:03:01.830
Jake Marcus: and now I I mean we still have a ton of attendees. So let’s get to a couple of more of the questions and feel free to ask, and we can get it to them today or after is there a distinction between collecting condo fees and special assessments special assessments generally not.

496
01:03:02.700 –> 01:03:03.359
Jake Marcus: Not.

497
01:03:03.570 –> 01:03:05.719
Jake Marcus: How do you call it? Not.

498
01:03:05.720 –> 01:03:06.700
Ellen Shapiro: Rarely.

499
01:03:06.820 –> 01:03:09.717
Jake Marcus: Yeah, not subject to the Priority Lane

500
01:03:10.490 –> 01:03:13.119
Jake Marcus: or think that unless you have anything else to add.

501
01:03:13.380 –> 01:03:14.250
Ellen Shapiro: Well.

502
01:03:15.320 –> 01:03:33.600
Ellen Shapiro: when you talk about collection, do you mean to whoever asked the question? If you mean when we’re going through this priority lean process. That’s the distinction. Special assessments are not included. However, they don’t get wiped out again. Everybody sells or dies, so they remain on the ledger.

503
01:03:34.267 –> 01:03:37.449
Ellen Shapiro: That’s the important thing to note on that.

504
01:03:37.750 –> 01:03:38.530
Ellen Shapiro: But

505
01:03:38.740 –> 01:03:41.100
Ellen Shapiro: other than that, the process is the same.

506
01:03:42.760 –> 01:03:45.019
Stephen Marcus: And there’ll be cases where

507
01:03:45.050 –> 01:03:46.960
Stephen Marcus: there is no lender.

508
01:03:47.510 –> 01:03:49.720
Stephen Marcus: in which case it’s a

509
01:03:49.860 –> 01:04:01.130
Stephen Marcus: some people some some associations say, Oh, that’s that’s horrible. We actually think it’s actually great, because all amounts have priority.

510
01:04:02.130 –> 01:04:16.810
Ellen Shapiro: And talking about compassion, which is a good thing to have when somebody says I can’t pay my common fee, or my special assessment, or whatever, and I see they have no mortgage. I have to tell you. I don’t have a lot of sympathy.

511
01:04:17.500 –> 01:04:19.100
Ellen Shapiro: You’re living there.

512
01:04:19.110 –> 01:04:28.499
Ellen Shapiro: You’re not paying a mortgage. Now you don’t want to pay for the insurance, the snow plowing, the landscaping, I mean, that’s like a dream come true, but

513
01:04:28.820 –> 01:04:31.540
Ellen Shapiro: no mortgage. Go out. Take out a loan.

514
01:04:31.590 –> 01:04:39.929
Ellen Shapiro: Take it along, charge it on your credit card. I don’t care. But you have access to funds that other unit owners are paying for your services.

515
01:04:40.880 –> 01:04:43.560
Ellen Shapiro: I have no compassion in that case. Sorry.

516
01:04:45.420 –> 01:04:52.290
Jake Marcus: Right? Okay, yeah. And and and that kind of, I, I think there’s another interesting question. That kind of relates to that and.

517
01:04:52.290 –> 01:04:55.434
Stephen Marcus: And then we’re going a little past the hour. But so.

518
01:04:55.720 –> 01:04:56.840
Jake Marcus: See a lot on.

519
01:04:56.840 –> 01:05:14.369
Stephen Marcus: You can stay on. But if not, the full recording will be sent to the to the, to the registrants. Monday is Tuesday of next week, and we’ll cut and paste all the questions, including the ones before the webinar.

520
01:05:14.380 –> 01:05:17.669
Stephen Marcus: so that you get answers to those at the same time.

521
01:05:18.650 –> 01:05:22.940
Jake Marcus: Thanks, Patrick Holland. I I gotta get on. My dad told me you’re on a a sports

522
01:05:22.990 –> 01:05:25.000
Jake Marcus: cast. I’ll have to get on that soon.

523
01:05:25.270 –> 01:05:25.555
Jake Marcus: The

524
01:05:25.840 –> 01:05:29.350
Stephen Marcus: I think he I think he took over for Dennis on Callahan and Dennis.

525
01:05:31.010 –> 01:05:32.650
Stephen Marcus: Sorry, old joke! You wouldn’t.

526
01:05:32.898 –> 01:05:40.851
Jake Marcus: Alright, but I did want to get to. We do solve a ton of people here. So I did just want to get to one thing that Ellen kind of just addressed.

527
01:05:41.120 –> 01:05:44.030
Jake Marcus: while the unit owner is disputing

528
01:05:44.170 –> 01:05:46.030
Jake Marcus: the charges.

529
01:05:47.620 –> 01:05:49.439
Jake Marcus: What do you do about the legal fee?

530
01:05:49.580 –> 01:05:55.383
Jake Marcus: I I don’t think there’s much you can do that keeps. But that’s gonna continue. I mean, unless we’re gonna be.

531
01:05:55.660 –> 01:05:58.460
Ellen Shapiro: I mean, if if you want to be compassionate and

532
01:05:58.550 –> 01:06:12.410
Ellen Shapiro: not charge legal fees, that’s on the attorney or the association wants to be compassionate and say, don’t charge him for this. That’s on the association, but otherwise the clock keeps ticking.

533
01:06:13.895 –> 01:06:19.120
Ellen Shapiro: which I remind them of. The more you fight, the more it’s gonna cost you in the end.

534
01:06:19.120 –> 01:06:27.259
Jake Marcus: That’s exactly all the back and forth to try to resolve. It is gonna rack up the legal fees as well. So that’s it’s a. It’s a kind of

535
01:06:27.370 –> 01:06:38.189
Jake Marcus: inherent issue that you don’t pay. It’s gonna keep going up. So yeah, unless there’s a legitimate. I I mean, how often do you see a legitimate dispute as to that? That point

536
01:06:38.530 –> 01:06:39.730
Jake Marcus: from a unit owner.

537
01:06:40.280 –> 01:06:55.990
Ellen Shapiro: Every now and then, and where I see it happening is a unit owner who owns multiple units. Sometimes they’ll send in one check, and they don’t say which unit is, for. So it gets posted to the wrong account. Things like that. But

538
01:06:56.160 –> 01:07:10.270
Ellen Shapiro: under those circumstances man management will generally say, can you get rid of the legal fee? It was really our mistake, and you know we don’t ever want manage managers to look. They need to be embarrassed. So we eat the legal fee under those circumstances.

539
01:07:10.650 –> 01:07:11.580
Jake Marcus: Makes sense.

540
01:07:12.560 –> 01:07:13.524
Jake Marcus: Okay?

541
01:07:17.110 –> 01:07:18.070
Jake Marcus: okay.

542
01:07:18.530 –> 01:07:21.350
Jake Marcus: another. There’s another question that’s not really related to.

543
01:07:21.720 –> 01:07:31.060
Jake Marcus: It’s when an owner refuses to spend money to correct a dangerous condition, and the Hoa pays. How long before the Hoa can recover that money, I would say immediately.

544
01:07:31.819 –> 01:07:38.939
Jake Marcus: once something is fixed, I mean, the biggest example is a roof for roof needs to be fixed, I mean, generally.

545
01:07:39.584 –> 01:07:43.479
Jake Marcus: You think a special assessment would be levied at that point. But

546
01:07:44.960 –> 01:07:47.820
Jake Marcus: I mean, I’d say immediately, unless there’s some other

547
01:07:47.830 –> 01:07:50.030
Jake Marcus: parameter in place as to

548
01:07:50.180 –> 01:07:58.570
Jake Marcus: when you’re gonna kind of seek re rem your reimbursement for that that payment.

549
01:07:59.020 –> 01:08:08.539
Ellen Shapiro: Shawn and I have been involved in a very contentious issue with a unit owner who did not want to repair the leaky bathtub

550
01:08:08.770 –> 01:08:18.299
Ellen Shapiro: and Shawn, if you wanna capsuleize that one that went on for years and tens of thousands of legal fees and still sort of ongoing.

551
01:08:18.300 –> 01:08:19.929
Jake Marcus: Still ongoing. Yeah.

552
01:08:20.109 –> 01:08:21.779
Ellen Shapiro: But the bathtub doesn’t leak.

553
01:08:22.540 –> 01:08:24.560
Jake Marcus: No, no. I finally got repaired

554
01:08:25.075 –> 01:08:27.420
Jake Marcus: but yeah, and we threw in some.

555
01:08:27.859 –> 01:08:30.709
Jake Marcus: Well, we didn’t throw it in, but you don’t want to throw in some

556
01:08:31.069 –> 01:08:34.669
Jake Marcus: competency issue. So that’s just the whole mess.

557
01:08:34.670 –> 01:08:36.486
Ellen Shapiro: Really messed everything up right.

558
01:08:36.850 –> 01:08:39.631
Jake Marcus: We need another route to talk about that case.

559
01:08:40.498 –> 01:09:07.049
Jake Marcus: Well, it’s Friday. So hopefully, not. But yeah, we got a couple of more questions just about what is the difference for a collection of a special assessment compared to monthly fee. I think we went over that special assessment is not subject to the lien enforcement and collections process generally, at least in the jurisdictions we practice another question similar. If condo docs only specify late fee for condo dues, can we charge fees for late or non payment on special assessment

560
01:09:07.961 –> 01:09:10.969
Jake Marcus: not on special assessment. But

561
01:09:10.999 –> 01:09:15.179
Jake Marcus: if it’s a late fee, interest may accrue depending on the jurisdiction

562
01:09:16.849 –> 01:09:19.969
Jake Marcus: in New Hampshire. I actually just saw on the statute, and I don’t wanna

563
01:09:20.739 –> 01:09:31.289
Jake Marcus: again the disclaim. I don’t practice New Hampshire but I do see that it appears that interest is also not included as a does not,

564
01:09:31.829 –> 01:09:35.759
Jake Marcus: become subject to lien enforcement as well. It doesn’t accrue.

565
01:09:40.489 –> 01:09:44.759
Jake Marcus: I think that’s about it. Unless anyone has questions. I I mean, I think.

566
01:09:45.038 –> 01:09:47.270
Stephen Marcus: Final question I have for Ellen or Sean.

567
01:09:47.964 –> 01:09:50.099
Stephen Marcus: Shawn does the title?

568
01:09:50.649 –> 01:09:51.979
Stephen Marcus: There’s

569
01:09:52.789 –> 01:10:06.960
Stephen Marcus: what we know as social and sales act notice. But basically, it’s the 1st step that the the 1st mortgage hold has to do with for closing on a unit

570
01:10:07.481 –> 01:10:14.549
Stephen Marcus: the sales gonna be gonna be 10 days from the date. Shawn

571
01:10:14.610 –> 01:10:42.260
Stephen Marcus: does the title search, which is the day he gets the request from the property manager for the Association. Can you send multiple notices to the lender, to the unit owner, etc, and or contact the lenders attorney, and say, Gee! If you agree to pay these amounts and announce it for closure that we won’t incur all these additional legal fees.

572
01:10:44.260 –> 01:10:52.669
Ellen Shapiro: Well, I think the problem strong with the title is, you’ll see. Pick up the soldiers and sailors very often. We don’t know who the attorney was who filed it

573
01:10:52.760 –> 01:11:01.569
Ellen Shapiro: because they used to say the name of the attorney. Sometimes it doesn’t. It may have the law firm name. It may not but

574
01:11:02.190 –> 01:11:04.520
Ellen Shapiro: it’s always better practice

575
01:11:04.540 –> 01:11:06.570
Ellen Shapiro: to keep a dialogue going

576
01:11:06.620 –> 01:11:10.520
Ellen Shapiro: rather than just running up legal fees for the sake of legal fees.

577
01:11:10.990 –> 01:11:30.289
Ellen Shapiro: but can’t get anywhere. At least we have the provision that if a foreclosure is pending, you do whatever you have to do to protect the associations lien. Everything’s at the window with the 30 day, notice, etc, and so forth. If the lenders foreclosing you can jump in and protect your associations lien.

578
01:11:30.540 –> 01:11:37.450
Ellen Shapiro: But if you have the ability to talk to the Bank Council. It’s always better to try to resolve it.

579
01:11:39.440 –> 01:11:40.290
Jake Marcus: Yes,

580
01:11:41.910 –> 01:11:43.700
Jake Marcus: We got another good question

581
01:11:44.260 –> 01:11:47.909
Jake Marcus: which may be pretty specific to this

582
01:11:48.305 –> 01:12:00.930
Jake Marcus: this association. We currently have a unit owner that was turned over to legal, and subsequently, I believe, a lien was going to be placed on the unit. We now see that the last 2 condo fees have bounced.

583
01:12:01.400 –> 01:12:10.450
Jake Marcus: The concern that we have is the lien doesn’t help us to receive the necessary payment until the unit is sold. What would be the next step to get our funds.

584
01:12:13.550 –> 01:12:15.960
Ellen Shapiro: I think there’s some missing information.

585
01:12:16.880 –> 01:12:19.290
Jake Marcus: So too. Well, I think

586
01:12:20.200 –> 01:12:22.579
Jake Marcus: we need to know what was started with the.

587
01:12:22.580 –> 01:12:25.100
Ellen Shapiro: Right where you are in the collection process.

588
01:12:25.160 –> 01:12:34.319
Ellen Shapiro: because checks can keep bouncing during the collection process. That doesn’t mean anything. It’s what stage you’re in in terms of collecting the money.

589
01:12:34.460 –> 01:12:42.640
Ellen Shapiro: If you’re at the foreclosure stage and is, you’re going to be foreclosing, you’ll get your money typically 30 days after the foreclosure sale.

590
01:12:42.890 –> 01:12:45.429
Ellen Shapiro: and that’s a condolen foreclosure.

591
01:12:45.750 –> 01:12:46.850
Ellen Shapiro: So

592
01:12:46.880 –> 01:12:53.760
Ellen Shapiro: I I think there’s there’s a disconnect in your question and us cause we need to know what’s going on

593
01:12:54.630 –> 01:12:56.580
Ellen Shapiro: during that time period.

594
01:12:56.860 –> 01:12:58.440
Stephen Marcus: A and

595
01:13:00.150 –> 01:13:04.209
Stephen Marcus: at least in Massachusetts. The lean

596
01:13:04.470 –> 01:13:06.020
Stephen Marcus: already exists.

597
01:13:06.554 –> 01:13:12.919
Stephen Marcus: You don’t need the 2 bounce checks to have to create a lane. But

598
01:13:13.200 –> 01:13:15.320
Stephen Marcus: if you had 2 balance checks

599
01:13:17.299 –> 01:13:25.790
Stephen Marcus: at 60 day mark, you would pursue the enforcement of the lane to get the monies

600
01:13:26.653 –> 01:13:30.459
Stephen Marcus: by sending the matter over to the

601
01:13:30.510 –> 01:13:37.839
Stephen Marcus: attorney. The question sounds like the ask or the question thinks that they’re gonna lose these amounts.

602
01:13:37.870 –> 01:13:48.009
Stephen Marcus: But you bounce to checks. It goes to Shawn or Ellen Shawn. Does the title cert they get out the notices

603
01:13:48.432 –> 01:13:56.280
Stephen Marcus: it should work the same way. Yeah, maybe we’re missing something so feel free to call Ellen Shawn.

604
01:13:56.540 –> 01:13:59.109
Ellen Shapiro: Maybe it’s in the process. Maybe it’s in the pipeline.

605
01:13:59.190 –> 01:14:13.619
Ellen Shapiro: The attorney might be have sent out the notices of whatever reason you didn’t get a copy of that, so you might think that’s slipping through the cracks. But you’re right, Steven. It should not. And, Stephen, you raised an interesting point.

606
01:14:13.790 –> 01:14:16.780
Ellen Shapiro: and I I think that it’s a little too

607
01:14:17.150 –> 01:14:20.349
Ellen Shapiro: much for right now, unless somebody wants to hear it.

608
01:14:20.550 –> 01:14:37.960
Ellen Shapiro: Massachusetts specifically says the lean is in existence from the day the condominium is created, and everyone always calls and says, Can you put a lean on the unit? The lean exists? It’s that what we are doing is perfecting and enforcing it.

609
01:14:38.620 –> 01:14:57.079
Ellen Shapiro: So if we did nothing, you would get wiped out in foreclosure, because we haven’t affected the priority the lien. But that’s why a unit owner has to get a 60 in Massachusetts when they sell, because that says there are no liens on the unit. So the money has been paid.

610
01:14:57.980 –> 01:14:58.650
Ellen Shapiro: but that’s.

611
01:14:58.650 –> 01:14:59.250
Stephen Marcus: Skip.

612
01:14:59.533 –> 01:15:00.100
Ellen Shapiro: The day.

613
01:15:00.360 –> 01:15:03.370
Stephen Marcus: If a sale is taking place, Alan or Shawn

614
01:15:03.560 –> 01:15:05.860
Stephen Marcus: and the

615
01:15:05.890 –> 01:15:10.540
Stephen Marcus: the unit is delinquent, say $3,000.

616
01:15:12.385 –> 01:15:17.489
Stephen Marcus: Should the manager avoid taking a personal check from the unit owner.

617
01:15:17.490 –> 01:15:18.150
Ellen Shapiro: Absurd.

618
01:15:18.471 –> 01:15:26.499
Stephen Marcus: And do you work out anything with the closing attorney to make sure that the association gets paid? Or how does that all work.

619
01:15:27.940 –> 01:15:29.510
Ellen Shapiro: Shawn. You want to take that

620
01:15:29.550 –> 01:15:31.599
Ellen Shapiro: particularly where you do closings.

621
01:15:31.600 –> 01:15:33.640
Jake Marcus: Yeah. So for the closing on, we’ll do.

622
01:15:33.750 –> 01:15:41.760
Jake Marcus: Yeah. You have 2 options. You do a 60 or dirty 60 or clean one you know, with clean 1 1, though you want to do.

623
01:15:41.930 –> 01:15:46.136
Jake Marcus: It’s called an escrow letter so you give them payoff statement. And

624
01:15:46.860 –> 01:16:07.109
Jake Marcus: you know, in the escrow that I was. You know the calling attorney agrees to, you know, in turn, forgetting the clean sixties, or call along with the deed and mortgage, or whatever you know, they’ll remit the funds, they’ll put that amount that’s owed onto the calls and disclose, or a HUD depending on what kind of deal it is and they’ll remit that directly to to us, so we can ensure everything’s all done.

625
01:16:07.800 –> 01:16:15.989
Jake Marcus: And then, you know, if that doesn’t happen, you know it’s still on the unit. And now you have a closing attorney is liable as well. So

626
01:16:16.374 –> 01:16:20.060
Jake Marcus: you know that they’re always pretty good about paying that, so they don’t want to get in trouble.

627
01:16:21.160 –> 01:16:25.050
Ellen Shapiro: But to your point, Steven. No personal checks when the sales coming up.

628
01:16:25.120 –> 01:16:35.729
Ellen Shapiro: because personal checks don’t clear in time, and then the unit owners gone. You don’t even know where he or she is, and you don’t want to sue him for the money, and it gets ugly.

629
01:16:35.910 –> 01:16:38.469
Ellen Shapiro: So personal checks are no no.

630
01:16:39.950 –> 01:16:46.373
Stephen Marcus: And it’s not a question that’d be not trust on the Internet. Oh, I guess it is a question.

631
01:16:47.050 –> 01:16:47.900
Ellen Shapiro: That’s the.

632
01:16:48.244 –> 01:17:04.790
Stephen Marcus: They didn’t pay condominium fees for a long time. and now it’s oh, why wouldn’t you take my my check? Yeah, I thought you like me as an owner has nothing to do with like or not like it’s it’s not fair again

633
01:17:04.860 –> 01:17:17.250
Stephen Marcus: for for most of the unit owners to be subsidizing the ones who don’t pay. Jake Brian Carroll, for some reason, is asking questions on specifically a view about the Fannie Mae Blacklist.

634
01:17:17.500 –> 01:17:18.739
Jake Marcus: Do you know.

635
01:17:19.059 –> 01:17:19.379
Stephen Marcus: Is.

636
01:17:19.980 –> 01:17:23.287
Jake Marcus: Yes, the Fannie Mae blacklist is a

637
01:17:23.770 –> 01:17:29.829
Jake Marcus: list that is made unavailable to or maybe you can touch on it, Stephen.

638
01:17:30.660 –> 01:17:34.710
Stephen Marcus: I don’t know anything about. Brian was asking specifically for you.

639
01:17:35.280 –> 01:17:46.710
Jake Marcus: Okay. Alright. The Fannie Mae blacklist is a list of associations that are curtailed from seeking loans from Fannie, Mae

640
01:17:47.485 –> 01:18:07.529
Jake Marcus: and Freddie Mac, and there’s a list of reasons why you may end up on the list could range from construction, defect to inadequate insurance to inadequate reserves to even condotels, which are condos that are also doubling as hotels.

641
01:18:07.852 –> 01:18:33.279
Jake Marcus: Transient unit owners as well. I’m wondering if there’s I kinda just wanna segue it. But basically it’s a list that Fannie Mae is keeping. You don’t find out if you’re on it until you apply for a loan, and then you find out the hard way. Oh, I’m on the list, but you don’t even know why you’re on the list until that. Even when you send that. So we kinda have been working to seek transparency from Fannie Mae

642
01:18:33.765 –> 01:18:57.624
Jake Marcus: and Freddie Mac to provide the names of the units or the condos on the list, and you know, help! Help condos! Get off the list. If you don’t know you’re on it, how you’re gonna get off of it. If you don’t know why you’re on it, how you’re gonna get off of it. So we’ve been seeking to get transparency there. I’m wondering if there’s an interplay between delinquency delinquent owners and

643
01:18:58.200 –> 01:18:59.490
Jake Marcus: The blacklist.

644
01:19:00.480 –> 01:19:01.010
Stephen Marcus: Enough!

645
01:19:01.010 –> 01:19:03.590
Jake Marcus: Probably not. But that’s why.

646
01:19:03.590 –> 01:19:07.870
Ellen Shapiro: Amy May has a requirement about the number of delinquencies. To begin with.

647
01:19:07.870 –> 01:19:09.336
Stephen Marcus: Oh, there we go. Yeah.

648
01:19:09.630 –> 01:19:13.909
Jake Marcus: There you go. That’s that’s kinda that. That’s that’s what I was getting at. That. That makes a lot of sense.

649
01:19:14.250 –> 01:19:23.269
Jake Marcus: We have 2 more questions. If time lapses for delinquency, notice being sent, how is that impact on the collection collection process? How long is the time lapse allowed.

650
01:19:27.860 –> 01:19:30.029
Ellen Shapiro: I I didn’t have enough coffee this morning.

651
01:19:30.260 –> 01:19:32.919
Ellen Shapiro: Could you repeat the question, Jake? I didn’t follow.

652
01:19:33.080 –> 01:19:46.390
Jake Marcus: If if time, if a time lapse for the delinquency, notice if there’s a time lapse for the delinquency, notice being sent, how is that impacting the collection process. How long does the time lapse allow.

653
01:19:47.240 –> 01:19:47.910
Ellen Shapiro: Well.

654
01:19:48.330 –> 01:19:51.370
Ellen Shapiro: Theoretically, within the 6 months.

655
01:19:51.630 –> 01:19:52.839
Jake Marcus: Or 6 months. Yeah.

656
01:19:53.904 –> 01:20:00.645
Ellen Shapiro: But like everything else, they’re pitfalls along the way, which is why we say, don’t let time lapse.

657
01:20:02.290 –> 01:20:06.050
Jake Marcus: Right cause. You could only what protect for the preceding 6 months.

658
01:20:06.210 –> 01:20:10.029
Ellen Shapiro: Well, the filing of the complaint is for the preceding 6 months, exactly.

659
01:20:10.280 –> 01:20:13.679
Jake Marcus: Got it. So if you do a year later you’re out of luck on the.

660
01:20:13.680 –> 01:20:16.949
Ellen Shapiro: Collect 6 months before you file a complaint.

661
01:20:17.740 –> 01:20:18.129
Jake Marcus: Got it.

662
01:20:18.130 –> 01:20:22.070
Stephen Marcus: Go go going back to Alan’s pointing out that the

663
01:20:22.850 –> 01:20:26.079
Stephen Marcus: connection between delinquencies and the blacklist.

664
01:20:26.090 –> 01:20:27.150
Stephen Marcus: the

665
01:20:27.230 –> 01:20:33.849
Stephen Marcus: associations don’t want to have delinquencies become more than 15%,

666
01:20:33.990 –> 01:20:44.219
Stephen Marcus: or Fannie, Mae, Freddie, Mac and Shj won’t buy or guarantee the loans.

667
01:20:44.260 –> 01:20:50.690
Stephen Marcus: So yeah, now that I’m thinking of Ellen’s very quick on our feet. Answer.

668
01:20:51.150 –> 01:20:51.550
Ellen Shapiro: And stay.

669
01:20:51.550 –> 01:20:52.000
Stephen Marcus: You guys.

670
01:20:52.000 –> 01:20:53.100
Ellen Shapiro: But I’m sitting.

671
01:20:53.828 –> 01:20:57.599
Stephen Marcus: Click on our chair. Answer that

672
01:20:58.530 –> 01:21:09.659
Stephen Marcus: that that there is a strong connection, because boards and managers, you can’t have delinquencies become more than 15.

673
01:21:09.800 –> 01:21:28.949
Stephen Marcus: And again to say this, probably for the 4th or 10th time. It’s just not fair for those 15 to be subsidized by the rest of the people who work just as hard to pay their bills and their kind of minimum fees and have no problem paying them on time.

674
01:21:29.740 –> 01:21:41.340
Ellen Shapiro: Or unfair to a a prospective buyer who we’ve no duty to let me make that clear. But you know somebody wants to buy my unit. And now this guy can’t get a mortgage because of those people.

675
01:21:41.450 –> 01:21:42.330
Ellen Shapiro: You know.

676
01:21:42.510 –> 01:21:48.550
Ellen Shapiro: the unit owner could lose the sale. The buyer could walk. I mean. It’s just such a bad idea.

677
01:21:50.530 –> 01:21:51.020
Jake Marcus: I don’t.

678
01:21:51.020 –> 01:21:53.020
Stephen Marcus: About 20 min past.

679
01:21:53.020 –> 01:21:54.920
Jake Marcus: One more. One more question

680
01:21:56.796 –> 01:22:02.600
Jake Marcus: is there any way to collect a delinquent special assessment in Massachusetts, besides a 60?

681
01:22:04.520 –> 01:22:05.370
Jake Marcus: Yes.

682
01:22:06.890 –> 01:22:07.670
Stephen Marcus: Ellen.

683
01:22:07.950 –> 01:22:11.669
Ellen Shapiro: Well, a. The situation where the unit owner has no mortgage.

684
01:22:12.014 –> 01:22:17.530
Ellen Shapiro: You just file the complaints against them, send him his notices or her and go collect them

685
01:22:18.072 –> 01:22:21.029
Ellen Shapiro: in the regular course of collection process.

686
01:22:21.630 –> 01:22:22.350
Ellen Shapiro: And

687
01:22:22.840 –> 01:22:27.809
Ellen Shapiro: you could still foreclose the fact that the special assessment and this is important

688
01:22:29.260 –> 01:22:45.950
Ellen Shapiro: does not have priority does not mean you don’t have a remedy if you look at the title, and you see that there’s an outstanding mortgage of, let’s say, $75,000 on a unit that’s worth 400,000. You can still do a non priority.

689
01:22:46.420 –> 01:22:47.180
Ellen Shapiro: Osha.

690
01:22:47.310 –> 01:22:57.019
Ellen Shapiro: and then a $400,000 unit will probably sell for more than the amount of mortgage. So you’re not going to knock out the mortgage. You pay the mortgage holder

691
01:22:57.420 –> 01:23:05.049
Ellen Shapiro: or stays up, but generally you’d be better served to pay the mortgage holder, and then from the surplus pay the special assessment.

692
01:23:05.200 –> 01:23:10.780
Ellen Shapiro: because it would still have the attorneys, fees, and costs included, because that’s part of the

693
01:23:11.050 –> 01:23:15.499
Ellen Shapiro: keep in my special assessments are assessments. They may be special, but they are.

694
01:23:15.500 –> 01:23:16.340
Stephen Marcus: Yes.

695
01:23:16.340 –> 01:23:17.660
Ellen Shapiro: Assessments. So

696
01:23:18.610 –> 01:23:23.069
Ellen Shapiro: in that scenario you could be going forward to foreclose.

697
01:23:23.070 –> 01:23:26.210
Jake Marcus: And I. And I think the good point there is.

698
01:23:26.500 –> 01:23:31.280
Jake Marcus: just because it’s not subject, just because a special assessment is not subject to

699
01:23:31.350 –> 01:23:34.120
Jake Marcus: the collections process generally.

700
01:23:34.460 –> 01:23:44.089
Jake Marcus: And how it’s laid out under one day. 183 a. It doesn’t mean there are. There is a lack of grounds to seek action as to a special assessment.

701
01:23:44.470 –> 01:24:12.380
Stephen Marcus: And and there’s another scenario that we skipped over. But we know happens, which is, there’s a special assessment the unit owner thinks it’s an improvement for and requires a vote you send. It’s very possible you start the collection process. The link process that the unit owner pays.

702
01:24:12.380 –> 01:24:33.870
Stephen Marcus: It never gets to the point of filing a complaint to foreclose. You never get to the issue of that. It’s doesn’t have a priority of the 1st mortgage. Sometimes Ellen and Shawn send letters as and hey, you owe us this money, the person says. Well, I don’t think the assessments Fair and Shawn. Say, that’s not a

703
01:24:33.870 –> 01:24:51.210
Stephen Marcus: and there’s no defense. They’re not paying kind of minimum fees, just like real estate taxes. And she she collects the money and the lender wasn’t involved, and their mortgage wasn’t effective. So sometimes people pay after an attorney’s letter.

704
01:24:53.040 –> 01:24:54.980
Ellen Shapiro: Especially ours, because we’re talking.

705
01:24:54.980 –> 01:24:56.320
Stephen Marcus: Actually ours. Yes.

706
01:24:56.830 –> 01:25:03.420
Jake Marcus: And and yeah, I think there’s, yeah, I think we we discussed briefly about yeah, if something happens in the community

707
01:25:03.860 –> 01:25:06.190
Jake Marcus: and you have to seek.

708
01:25:06.400 –> 01:25:11.279
Jake Marcus: you know fines, or what have you or penalties? Those are also not subject to

709
01:25:11.720 –> 01:25:17.279
Jake Marcus: subject to the collections process. But again, you still, if you if you find someone

710
01:25:17.601 –> 01:25:22.098
Jake Marcus: that should still have some teeth to it and you have some, you should have some

711
01:25:22.880 –> 01:25:26.170
Jake Marcus: grounds for relief and mechanisms for relief.

712
01:25:26.440 –> 01:25:29.429
Stephen Marcus: But Ellen and Shawn get get paid

713
01:25:29.460 –> 01:25:30.910
Stephen Marcus: in full

714
01:25:30.970 –> 01:26:00.699
Stephen Marcus: all the time. I mean, it’s priority. Non priority. New Hampshire, Rhode Island. sometimes the answer. This may be the very 1st letter that the particular unit don’t ever got from an attorney and they get scared if they call about it. Shawn and Elma explain to them why it has to be paid, and that they can’t just withhold it or put it in escrow.

715
01:26:00.720 –> 01:26:03.730
Stephen Marcus: and it’s paid, and the mat is gone.

716
01:26:03.900 –> 01:26:18.969
Stephen Marcus: So manages don’t hesitate to go after special assessments the same way that you would go after kind of many things. There’s no reason not to step process unless someone tells me there isn’t.

717
01:26:19.990 –> 01:26:30.959
Ellen Shapiro: Well, I’m not going to say that there isn’t, but I think what you said is is right. There’s no reason not to stop. Start the pro process. The question comes up about finishing the process.

718
01:26:31.480 –> 01:26:39.950
Ellen Shapiro: what are you going to do if the unit on refuses to pay, particularly if it is improperly categorized on the ledger.

719
01:26:40.300 –> 01:26:44.730
Ellen Shapiro: It’s if it doesn’t say if it says special assessment.

720
01:26:45.490 –> 01:26:48.510
Ellen Shapiro: chances are pretty good that you’re not going to get it.

721
01:26:49.152 –> 01:26:53.469
Ellen Shapiro: Banks have gotten very savvy, but if it’s just in, there’s

722
01:26:53.580 –> 01:26:55.400
Ellen Shapiro: any other phrase.

723
01:26:55.620 –> 01:26:57.200
Ellen Shapiro: we’ll probably get it.

724
01:26:58.000 –> 01:26:58.549
Ellen Shapiro: you know.

725
01:26:58.550 –> 01:27:00.730
Stephen Marcus: So if there are, let’s say, 200 jobs.

726
01:27:00.730 –> 01:27:01.350
Ellen Shapiro: Oh, Lord!

727
01:27:01.860 –> 01:27:03.839
Ellen Shapiro: What is lettuce? Yay.

728
01:27:04.529 –> 01:27:11.149
Stephen Marcus: Let’s say this, $200 and fines after Alan or Shawn collect

729
01:27:11.220 –> 01:27:13.190
Stephen Marcus: $8,000

730
01:27:13.260 –> 01:27:14.870
Stephen Marcus: in unpaid amounts.

731
01:27:15.210 –> 01:27:15.690
Ellen Shapiro: –

732
01:27:15.690 –> 01:27:20.300
Stephen Marcus: They meant may very well say to you, just keep it on the books.

733
01:27:20.510 –> 01:27:33.930
Stephen Marcus: because 200 judges are going to yell at us if we chase that, but it’s too small. It’s not going to affect your ability to pay bills, keep it on the books, and eventually it’s going to get paid.

734
01:27:34.330 –> 01:27:44.449
Ellen Shapiro: That’s the problem with the judicial foreclosure. You’re right, Steven, the judge says. Wait a minute. This led to $200, and you’re in here seeking attorneys, fees of whatever

735
01:27:44.600 –> 01:27:46.039
Ellen Shapiro: that’s ridiculous.

736
01:27:46.950 –> 01:27:50.899
Ellen Shapiro: You get into that kind of bad press, and nobody wants that.

737
01:27:51.020 –> 01:28:04.669
Ellen Shapiro: or the Globe starts writing, you know. Poor widow you Association is gonna foreclose for $200 of unpaid fines. And we’ve all seen those horror stories. So I mean, there’s a lot of judgment involved in this. It’s not just

738
01:28:04.710 –> 01:28:09.070
Ellen Shapiro: routine. Send out a letter and crank them out. Their judgment calls to be made.

739
01:28:09.666 –> 01:28:25.489
Stephen Marcus: Jake had a question that that he ran past me couple of days ago, and it was an association that wanted to find somebody for having a pet so put aside that it that the argument might be as emotional support. Animal?

740
01:28:26.183 –> 01:28:38.149
Stephen Marcus: The problem with Jake’s question was, they wanted to go, but in July 25th of 2024 they wanted to go back

741
01:28:38.340 –> 01:28:41.450
Stephen Marcus: to March of 2023,

742
01:28:41.590 –> 01:28:45.879
Stephen Marcus: and find the person daily for having the Pet

743
01:28:46.350 –> 01:28:52.639
Stephen Marcus: and Ellen, can you explain the difficulties with that.

744
01:28:52.640 –> 01:28:56.739
Ellen Shapiro: Well, the 1st difficulties was the person ever notified

745
01:28:56.750 –> 01:28:59.719
Ellen Shapiro: that this is a potential. That’s the 1st thing.

746
01:29:00.050 –> 01:29:01.110
Jake Marcus: Yeah, exactly.

747
01:29:01.330 –> 01:29:05.512
Jake Marcus: I was curious. I was curious of correspondences, of any warnings or

748
01:29:06.210 –> 01:29:12.879
Ellen Shapiro: I mean, if the person hasn’t been told along the way this could happen, I strongly advise against it.

749
01:29:13.180 –> 01:29:14.070
Ellen Shapiro: Against

750
01:29:14.220 –> 01:29:19.050
Ellen Shapiro: retro and fines is a very bad thing to do. It really is.

751
01:29:20.440 –> 01:29:21.280
Stephen Marcus: And I don’t remember.

752
01:29:21.670 –> 01:29:23.620
Jake Marcus: That one would be completely

753
01:29:23.901 –> 01:29:27.520
Jake Marcus: that’d be excessive, that a court would look at that for a minute and say.

754
01:29:28.015 –> 01:29:28.510
Ellen Shapiro: Reasonable!

755
01:29:29.010 –> 01:29:39.279
Jake Marcus: This is very long stretch. Even if the city of town has violations for house, they don’t go. Oh, well, this is that like a year ago. It’s not when they found out no.

756
01:29:39.560 –> 01:29:40.850
Stephen Marcus: And keep in mind

757
01:29:41.220 –> 01:29:43.320
Stephen Marcus: the purpose of

758
01:29:43.490 –> 01:29:52.080
Stephen Marcus: the no pet restriction which we assume is in the master. Do you know? Trust to bylaws? Is

759
01:29:52.450 –> 01:29:57.940
Stephen Marcus: to not have pets. so.

760
01:29:57.940 –> 01:29:58.430
Ellen Shapiro: And.

761
01:29:58.430 –> 01:30:03.740
Stephen Marcus: If you find for 18 months, and it’s

762
01:30:03.810 –> 01:30:06.520
Stephen Marcus: having a 15 or $20,000,

763
01:30:06.870 –> 01:30:20.649
Stephen Marcus: the purpose of the rule, of the not the rule. The restriction is not to make money on fines is to not have the pets, because the owners, when they voted on the amendment, didn’t want them.

764
01:30:20.660 –> 01:30:49.609
Stephen Marcus: So the judges aren’t gonna like that, either. And frankly, if you started with the attorney in April of 2023 the legal fees are also assessed in at least in Massachusetts. So if the fines of $25 a day don’t bother the owner. The legal fees that we consider all to be very reasonable could be in the hundreds or thousands, or whatever, if if it’s ignored, so take action quickly to

765
01:30:49.620 –> 01:30:53.700
Stephen Marcus: accomplish what the restriction was intended to do.

766
01:30:54.163 –> 01:30:57.339
Stephen Marcus: It’s not a way of making money

767
01:30:58.826 –> 01:31:00.410
Stephen Marcus: unless someone says it is.

768
01:31:00.800 –> 01:31:01.670
Stephen Marcus: Huh?

769
01:31:02.055 –> 01:31:05.909
Ellen Shapiro: I call find the icing on the cake. But

770
01:31:06.460 –> 01:31:08.890
Ellen Shapiro: Rhode Island you can’t just go ahead and find

771
01:31:09.150 –> 01:31:10.889
Ellen Shapiro: you have to have it here.

772
01:31:11.040 –> 01:31:19.099
Ellen Shapiro: you you just can’t send a letter and say we’re finding you. So you have also have to be careful of having whether or not you have the power to do it.

773
01:31:19.220 –> 01:31:26.259
Ellen Shapiro: But you’re absolutely right, Stephen. We have to think of the purpose. What? What is it that’s being violated? What was the point.

774
01:31:27.700 –> 01:31:29.800
Ellen Shapiro: Is there a better remedy

775
01:31:30.560 –> 01:31:32.460
Ellen Shapiro: than just sitting back and finding.

776
01:31:34.810 –> 01:31:36.939
Jake Marcus: Right? So and yeah.

777
01:31:37.130 –> 01:31:40.570
Jake Marcus: due process hearings having warnings sent out.

778
01:31:42.020 –> 01:31:50.220
Jake Marcus: yeah, in in this one in particular. It’s it’s kind of. There’s no, it doesn’t look like there’s any finding power for this, either. So

779
01:31:50.559 –> 01:31:54.180
Jake Marcus: there’s different that they have in place what they can do.

780
01:31:54.910 –> 01:31:58.009
Jake Marcus: and it doesn’t include levying a fine. So.

781
01:31:58.230 –> 01:32:12.769
Stephen Marcus: In Massachusetts by 1 83 a provides for fines and late fees. But, as Alan said, you should tell the owners what the fines are.

782
01:32:13.166 –> 01:32:35.760
Stephen Marcus: God say, oh, you had the pet. So we’re finding you a thousand dollars a day back 18 months as well to the judge, it’s this is ridiculous! And 2 18 months after the fact you told the person that the fines were $1,000 a day. You just can’t do that.

783
01:32:36.550 –> 01:32:38.960
Stephen Marcus: Process and all all those issues.

784
01:32:39.240 –> 01:32:40.390
Jake Marcus: And I told you how.

785
01:32:40.390 –> 01:32:42.940
Stephen Marcus: Set Jake. We’re almost into Saturday.

786
01:32:45.890 –> 01:32:53.850
Jake Marcus: And then in Florida it’s a hundred dollars a day for 10 days up to the aggregate $1,000. So

787
01:32:54.220 –> 01:32:55.090
Jake Marcus: yeah.

788
01:32:55.570 –> 01:33:25.530
Jake Marcus: alright, yeah, we are almost into Saturday. We could be here all weekend I know Shawn T. Has nothing better to do. But we do appreciate you coming out for episode 17 if you wanna stay on until our anniversary on August 1st next Thursday, we’ll still be here. But we appreciate the time from our experts. Ellen, again. Appreciate it as always. Really good resource in our field. Really lucky to have her on our team and

789
01:33:25.780 –> 01:33:30.799
Jake Marcus: it was a. It was a pleasure, Shawn T. And I wouldn’t say the same. But no, I’m just gonna.

790
01:33:32.545 –> 01:33:32.840
Stephen Marcus: To.

791
01:33:33.360 –> 01:33:35.439
Jake Marcus: Really good job. Shanti.

792
01:33:35.440 –> 01:33:37.350
Jake Marcus: But you say I was on Facebook. I couldn’t hear you.

793
01:33:37.350 –> 01:33:40.030
Jake Marcus: I know. Yeah, I saw you viral.

794
01:33:40.030 –> 01:33:41.720
Ellen Shapiro: Busy ignoring you, Jake.

795
01:33:42.578 –> 01:33:44.650
Jake Marcus: Viral videos of dogs.

796
01:33:45.745 –> 01:34:02.194
Jake Marcus: And then we have Steven who is always a a panel of pundits. He always is good on the panel of pundits. I wanna think of a funnier word that could describe it. But we’ll just call him a pundit, for now.

797
01:34:02.560 –> 01:34:06.120
Stephen Marcus: Today was my best effort of of talking as little as possible.

798
01:34:06.120 –> 01:34:07.440
Ellen Shapiro: Fabulous. Stephen. Today.

799
01:34:08.250 –> 01:34:09.825
Jake Marcus: I thought you were sick.

800
01:34:10.140 –> 01:34:10.590
Jake Marcus: The.

801
01:34:10.590 –> 01:34:11.610
Stephen Marcus: Yeah, that’s true.

802
01:34:11.610 –> 01:34:14.138
Jake Marcus: One who died in your family.

803
01:34:14.560 –> 01:34:24.330
Stephen Marcus: Okay, so there’s email addresses for the panel, and Jake’s gonna cut and paste and probably have

804
01:34:24.960 –> 01:34:35.400
Stephen Marcus: Shawn and or Ellen maybe can do these like by Monday, and then on Monday or Tuesday the office manager will.

805
01:34:35.400 –> 01:34:36.859
Jake Marcus: Even a weekend homework.

806
01:34:37.797 –> 01:34:39.279
Stephen Marcus: That’s me. I think of me.

807
01:34:39.280 –> 01:34:39.810
Jake Marcus: About 2.

808
01:34:39.810 –> 01:34:44.100
Stephen Marcus: They well, so so Friday they.

809
01:34:44.100 –> 01:34:45.199
Jake Marcus: Yeah, yeah.

810
01:34:45.200 –> 01:34:47.950
Stephen Marcus: Monday, but if she hasn’t by Tuesday

811
01:34:48.862 –> 01:35:04.180
Stephen Marcus: we like sending out answers to the questions that’s before the program. The questions that take, cut and page from the program as as long with the along with a recording of the Webinar, and along with the Powerpoint slides.

812
01:35:04.630 –> 01:35:05.120
Jake Marcus: Yeah.

813
01:35:05.610 –> 01:35:07.630
Ellen Shapiro: I’ve been zoom nice knives.

814
01:35:08.950 –> 01:35:13.965
Stephen Marcus: Yes, if you act now you can get a set of get zoom, copy knives.

815
01:35:14.260 –> 01:35:15.831
Jake Marcus: While while supplies last.

816
01:35:17.010 –> 01:35:19.970
Stephen Marcus: What, what, what prohibited by law

817
01:35:20.950 –> 01:35:24.490
Stephen Marcus: and and thanks for the 26 people who are still on the call.

818
01:35:24.490 –> 01:35:28.279
Jake Marcus: Yeah, if you have any more questions, feel free to ask them while supplies last.

819
01:35:29.170 –> 01:35:55.059
Jake Marcus: But yeah, so we we we have. It was a pleasure we appreciate the what looks like positive feedback so far, but feel free to provide any positive or negative feedback. anything at all. We always are looking to improve hope this was useful hope it was informative and always here to help and hope to make your community a better place.

820
01:35:56.890 –> 01:35:58.340
Stephen Marcus: Enjoy your weekends.

821
01:35:59.353 –> 01:36:04.076
Jake Marcus: Brian? Carol asked, can you guys do your Ufc 3 0, 4 picks?

822
01:36:04.840 –> 01:36:06.010
Jake Marcus: Oh, man.

823
01:36:06.010 –> 01:36:07.629
Stephen Marcus: Is that alphabet fighting.

824
01:36:08.366 –> 01:36:09.949
Jake Marcus: Mixed martial artist. Yes.

825
01:36:13.634 –> 01:36:15.040
Jake Marcus: Hit the leave button. Now, guys.

826
01:36:15.040 –> 01:36:18.459
Jake Marcus: Yeah, on that, on that note. Thank you. Everyone.

827
01:36:18.460 –> 01:36:20.790
Ellen Shapiro: Dan. Thank you for your compliment to me.

828
01:36:22.070 –> 01:36:23.150
Stephen Marcus: Oh, that was nice!

829
01:36:23.400 –> 01:36:24.869
Jake Marcus: John couldn’t leave quick enough.

830
01:36:25.528 –> 01:36:29.830
Ellen Shapiro: He’s probably going to chase down a delinquent unit. Honor in court.

831
01:36:30.050 –> 01:36:30.750
Jake Marcus: Yeah.

832
01:36:32.740 –> 01:36:33.390
Jake Marcus: excellent.

833
01:36:33.390 –> 01:36:46.990
Stephen Marcus: Alright! Thank thank you, everybody. And see you next month, if you have topics let’s know what you’d be interested in having us talk about and get your questions on.

834
01:36:47.030 –> 01:36:48.060
Stephen Marcus: Thank you.

835
01:36:48.450 –> 01:36:51.429
Jake Marcus: But yeah, have a good weekend. Are you coming in, Steven?

836
01:36:51.710 –> 01:36:52.400
Stephen Marcus: Yeah.

837
01:36:53.370 –> 01:36:55.140
Stephen Marcus: How do you know I’m not? Now?

838
01:36:55.986 –> 01:36:57.693
Jake Marcus: That’s a good question.

839
01:36:58.505 –> 01:37:01.200
Stephen Marcus: Good. Yeah. See you in a bit.

840
01:37:01.200 –> 01:37:03.540
Jake Marcus: Okay. Alright. Thanks. Steven.

841
01:37:03.680 –> 01:37:04.600
Stephen Marcus: Bye.

842
01:37:04.600 –> 01:37:04.940
Jake Marcus: Right now.

843
01:37:04.940 –> 01:37:07.079
Stephen Marcus: Thank you. Thank you, Alan. Alan’s gone.

844
01:37:07.260 –> 01:37:08.699
Jake Marcus: Yup, trying to save the

845
01:37:09.110 –> 01:37:10.070
Jake Marcus: nice stuff.