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Today we have a exciting kind of webinar. We have a great special guest And we will be discussing the riveting topic of insurance and specifically condominium insurance and What you can kind of do as a board member, as a property manager, as a even unit owner, how you can look into your
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Developments, condominium insurance and what you can do. This will kind of cover Mostly what we’re seeing in Massachusetts, but insurance as a as a full kind of… holistic approach that everything is national. It’s a cumulative effect. I’m sure we’ll go over that multiple times. What’s happening in Florida.
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It will be discussed, the insurance going on there, what’s happening in California, what’s happening in many other jurisdictions and states that has led us to this point where insurance is crazy and something that is an important topic and something that you need to be informed about and figure out the best insurance that works for you. And we talk mostly about kind of
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In the condominium realm, right-sizing your insurance. You don’t want to just go to your crazy uncle, Uncle Eric and say, hey, you do insurance, right?
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So Uncle Eric is going to say, yeah, I do insurance.
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But do you do property? Do you do condominium insurance? If they say, no, I just do life insurance, well, you probably don’t want to use your Uncle Eric.
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To do your condominium insurance. So we’ll get into why you should use someone like Jeff.
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Talk to someone like Jeff about what is the best insurance for you? What’s the best insurance for your condominium? What risks you geographic or otherwise, you will be or could be exposed to and what what kind of policies would be best for your situation. It’s not a one size fits all approach.
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And we will get into that. But without further ado, I’m going to share my screen.
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And we’re going to get right into it. So there’s our mug shots, episode 21 of the Marcus Hour.
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Thank you, Jake.
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That’s Stephen Marcus. Stephen, welcome. That’s me, Jake Marcus, and I am a attorney at Alcock and Marcus.
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We’re a full service condominium and hoa predominant law firm.
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And we specialize in representing the best interests of condominium association and the board.
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To make sure that everything is being done for the betterment of your association.
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And we are practicing in Massachusetts, Florida. Maine, Rhode Island.
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New Hampshire and most recently, Vermont. And I’d like to welcome our very special guest for this episode.
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Jeffrey Cotto. Am I pronouncing that right? Kota?
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Cato, and thank you, Jake. Yep, thank you guys for having me. Pleasure to join both of you today.
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Hold up. Excellent.
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And he is a member of Rogers Gray, a Baldwin risk partner.
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And we are going to get to everything that he does and everything that Jeff can help you out with as far as insurance goes.
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And again, typically with these webinars, we encourage questions throughout the episode if you want to just drop a question, we may not get to it.
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The webinar but We will certainly address it in the postscript materials.
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So again, we’re covering, this is not the first uh webinar that we’ve done on insurance and condominium insurance specifically.
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This is just such a pivotal topic, as I mentioned. And we will mostly be covering the condominium master insurance policy crisis and how managers can handle the insurance crisis And how board members and how board members can best represent
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The interests of the association as it comes to insurance. So Jeffrey Cotto serves as vice president and partner at the Baldwin Group.
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About 20 years experience, and he’s specialized in delivering the best solutions related to insurance. And in that realm insurance with condominium associations.
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He’s also on CAI New England Insurance Task Force. Stephen, are you on the task force as well?
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No.
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Okay. Well, you’re so involved with insurance that I figured you would be.
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I’ll ask Jeff, he’s the chair. I’d be happy to help out in 2025.
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Excellent. Well.
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Yeah, so… Yeah, so that’ll have just for Jake and Steve for reference. So, you know, that’ll be in a committee moving forward. And so that, you know, the chair, the committee task force was started last year, obviously, you know, with some of the, you know, the crisis and education needed for boards and communities.
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Around what was going on in insurance. And this year we’re moving it to a committee structure. And that’s freshly being developed now and being worked on. So more to come for that for 2025.
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So Jack, do you want me to get into… Slide four.
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Yeah. And Steven, you are on the, I just wanted to add, you are on the national, the national task force for Surfside. And I just wanted to give a shout out to cai If you are involved with condominiums.
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Cai, Community Association Institute is a great organization to join. And a lot of educational resources But as we mentioned.
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Stephen’s involved with the National Task Force for Surfside. Jeff is involved with the newly formed insurance task force, both important topics.
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Surfside has caused quite a ripple effect as far as it relates to insurance and other issues related to condominiums. And I’m sure we’ll discuss that but
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Okay, Jake want me to get going with… How did we get here and where we are going?
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Also, we’re getting some comments. Jeff, if you…
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Jeff, people can’t hear you.
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People can’t hear you, Jeff. Can you increase your mic volume?
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Sorry, Jake.
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Sure. And I’ll try to speak a little bit louder. Can you hear me now, Jake?
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Yep.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Audience, is that better? So yeah, you might have to be closer to the microphone, but that’s great. Okay, why don’t I… Take over slide four at this point. And I wanted to recap on Jeff, they say it’s a little better. So the closest to the mic you are, the better.
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I’m glad that Jake talked about community associations institute as the national and now international nonprofit For the education, most effective education and guidance for the operation of Condominium associations, homeowner associations, and cooperatives. There’s a New England chapter based in
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Wellesley, Claudette Carini is the executive director. I suggest that all people on the call should strongly consider become members of I would say they do have a, say, in addition to the SAI New England task force.
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There is a risk management group, including carriers. And agents for condominiums, cooperatives, and homeowner associations On a national level, I’m involved with the Federal Legislative Action Committee. But there’s a lot going on with insurance and it probably was the hottest topic.
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In 2024, some say that might be the Corporate Transparency Act, but if there’s going to be any place where there’s going to be a disaster.
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It’s going to be a loss where there’s not sufficient kinds or amounts of insurance.
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If you end up with a fire and there’s a $10 million shortfall.
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To you as managers, and I know there are some board members on here as well, want to be in front of a group of owners explaining to them that the condominium had 10 million dollars less insurance than its replacement cost. So these are scary topics and these are scary times.
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And the market has heightened, meaning that premiums have gone up dramatically.
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So, uh. First of all, I want to take a moment of silence to state that our thoughts and prayers with the people of Los Angeles.
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And the horrific wildfires that they are enduring as we speak.
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We have, through the CAI community, we have friends such as Kevin Davis and Sharon’s agency Which is based in Los Angeles. And our thoughts are who we’ve heard us say, but our thoughts are with them.
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But in California, 180,000 people have been evacuated. Yesterday, the guests on the news for the amount of loss losses was estimated at between 10 billion And 57 billion.
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Today, the estimates went up to 20 billion.
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To $150 billion total losses. And unfortunately.
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These types of natural events, unexpected that a week ago wouldn’t have been something that we considered. But now you have to consider Kevin Davis was reporting in that they’re doing well, but fires around us in all directions so again our
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And Karen Shervanian, who is a guest today.
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So I had some prayers with Kevin and Verily’s and other good people at Kevin Davis Insurance Agency in los angeles They… concerns of that Okay. And Karen, how are you, Karen? And so the issue is that the uh
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Market is going to, the carriers are going to respond to the California wildfires. And if there’s something in three months elsewhere, hurricanes, tornadoes, they got to respond to that And it seems like insurance carriers like like recouping their losses fairly quickly
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But natural disasters such as California are events that We can’t contain stop from happening, but they will affect premiums.
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So hurricanes, wildfires, tornadoes, we’ve had everything except locusts. I think there was really was an issue with locusts internationally. The Surfside collapse That was the building and condominium in Florida, Surfside, Florida.
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That collapsed at one o’clock in the morning, killing 98 people.
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The settlement just in that case alone was $1.2 billion. The reaction of the industry to that was concerns for other buildings not being structurally safe.
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So premiums on other structures went up, especially if they were high rises and on the water.
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But it’s been a wild ride in terms of figuring out how do you budget for for insurance and worse uh we’re doing some work in Montana Lake Tahoe, the questions are, is there even, can you even buy 100% replacement? We have some associations that are in
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Can only get insurance for 30% of the stated limits. South Boston, to add insult to injury, there’s a double murder.
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In a penthouse of metallic Boston, kind of met him. And while the terms were confidential.
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The association, we believe, have $100 million insurance policy And we believe that the settlement was probably in the range of $20 million. So those things happen, freak out the insurance carriers, and they want to raise raise premiums. And then the losses going to the trillions um
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One of the things I want to talk about with Jeff is when I met him.
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I thought that Rogerlyn Gray was a Cape Cod little agency maybe they had Jeff and his dad or somebody sitting in the office. Then I found out, no, no, we actually do the whole state. And that was, well, we actually do the whole country.
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And no matter what state you’re in, in the 50 states, District of Columbia.
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The US territories and internationally, Jeff, correct me if I’m wrong, but Jeff is able to help you with your own condominium and cooperative and homeowner association insurance needs anywhere in the in the country. And it’s very important that people use agents who know condominiums. And as Jake said, somebody’s uncle, Eric, who does life insurance.
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In California, today’s report is that the FAIR Plan, which is the assurr of last resort.
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Out of the state is one natural disaster short of insolvency.
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So with that being said. Jeff, where do you see the pricing going for premiums for condominium master policies in 2025?
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And beyond, and maybe you can comment on homeowners associations as well, which probably won’t be impacted as much. And tied in with 2025 is Well, the change of administration bring any changes either up or down in terms of what we can expect.
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Yeah, thank you, Stephen. Yeah, I’ll try to unpack some of that for you. And so, you know, I think the last two years has really been the correction to the term, maybe the new normal, right? And so exactly what you said here on the slide.
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Jake, next slide. Thank you.
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Yep. Yep. So exactly what you had said, Steven, right? So natural disasters, et cetera, were driving premiums the last couple of years. The carriers were trying to recoup major losses that they’ve incurred over that period. And, you know, obviously rates have skyrocketed. And so you saw associations, as you mentioned, where you were getting 50 to 100% increases in your premium potentially. You were getting non-renewals. So a lot of insurance companies were pulling out
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Of areas such as California and Florida. Coastally in New England and Massachusetts you know cape cod was hard hit by you know loss of Arbella in Philadelphia, you know, no longer writing associations in coastal areas and making the move to a Lloyd’s of London market is much more expensive than your traditional admitted marketplace.
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All of that kind of came together over the last two years.
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There was some optimism the third and fourth quarter of 2024. We were able to get some relief for associations.
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Give you an example. We had a condominium association that was capped at 25 million in coverage. So, you know, scouring the whole marketplace, the most insurance coverage they could buy at the end of 2023.
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Was 25 million for double the premium that they had been paying with Philadelphia. So, you know, going from a couple hundred thousand dollars to close to $500,000 in premium.
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This renewal cycle, we were actually able to get their full $63 million in coverage back and shave about $100,000 off of their renewal premium. And so we’ve repeated that multiple times. And so there’s some There’s some optimism in the marketplace with the reinsurance renewals for 2025 in January that we’ll see more stability in the pricing. We’re not going to see potentially some of these 100% price increases.
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There is some more capacity out there in the market, meaning more insurance carriers are willing to partner. We’ll talk a little bit about Laird programs, but more insurance companies have capacity to write.
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And the condominiums and the HOAs are going to benefit from that are going to be some of the associations that are going to do some of the things we’ll be talking about today, Stephen, from a risk management standpoint.
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And proving that, hey, we have the risk profile to be a good insured for the insurance company. So that’s going to be important as well.
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So Kevin, some… some associations, not some, probably many. So when I first started doing kind of in law 1979, the master policy deductibles were $100.
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Then there are a thousand, then there are 2,500, 5,000, 10,000.
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Sure.
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What we’re saying now is because of losses from within units, a hot water heater burst.
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And the 10 units and the stack below it all got substantial damage. We’re seeing more and more policies that are having 25,000, 50,000, $100,000 or more deductibles And then Jeff talked to me about wind coverages where a 2% deductible could be astronomical in terms of
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Of amounts and he might have ideas with that with how to deal with the high wind deductibles and maybe earthquake deductibles, etc.
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The other switch that I’d be interested in jeff’s comments on. So you have the option of $25,000, 50, $100,000 per unit if there’s a loss to that unit the homeowners policy covers the initial, let’s say, $100,000 of the best of the deductible
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But then the problem was, is Fannie Mae said, well, what if all the units are damaged?
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So they said, well, you can’t be more than 5% of the stated limits. So in other words, if you multip $100,000 times the number of units, does that equal a number that’s less than 5% of the stated limits And if it isn’t, if it isn’t
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That’s problematic. The lenders aren’t yet willing to say that the unit owner’s policy can simply pick that up. They want associations to be 100% insured for 100% replacement.
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The… The other shift that we saw quite a bit in 2024, almost on an experimental basis.
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Was associations going from single entity covering everything with a all in, going from everything that was in the unit that if you took the unit and put it upside down.
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Whatever didn’t fall to the ground or to the saline would be covered under the master policy.
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We’ve seen a shift towards associations going at least temporarily to beer walls where the unit owner is totally responsible for insuring in the unit, that does away with the per unit deductibles.
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And it makes the 5% deductible. Requirement of Fannie Mae, not an issue.
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Jeff, do you have any thoughts just generally, quick thoughts on bare walls versus higher deductibles per year?
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Sure. You know, I think the first place to start, right, depending on, again, because not everyone’s going to have a limitation on the coverage that they can purchase, right? So if you’re a seven story, you know, masonry building in Boston that’s sprinkler, you’re probably not having an issue of securing the proper amount of insurance that needs to be carried, you know, bare walls or all in.
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From a deductible standpoint, I think if you look at the cost of construction over the last couple of years.
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You know, we did see $5,000 and $10,000 deductibles a number of years ago making sense.
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But then when you start getting a frequency, as you mentioned, Steven, of water losses in units due to freeze-ups.
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It can affect your ability to purchase coverage. And so we’ve seen people try to use it as a risk management tool to say, hey, look, you know, if the loss is under $25,000, That’s going to be handled by your HO6 or by the unit owner. We’re trying to ensure for catastrophic losses. And so deductible adjustments been a good way to control premium
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But to also keep the lost history clean. And I agree with you, keeping it reasonable 25 to $100,000 seems reasonable in a lot of going much higher than that can cause issues for associations and isn’t really attainable.
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You know, if you have a $10,000 deductible, it may be time to consider going up to $25,000.
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In regards to the lenders, lenders and insurance companies don’t work together and laws come out, Fannie and Freddie make changes.
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But they don’t necessarily line up with what’s available in the insurance market. And so a workaround to the 5% deductible rule, which states that your deductible can’t be more than 5% of the total limit of insurance purchased.
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Is what you and I had talked about, Stephen, and what we’ve done is said, okay, if we have a 2% per occurrence win deductible, that might be a million dollar win deductible, right?
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There are wind deductible buyback programs available where an association can go to an insurer such as Lloyd’s and buy that deductible down to $25,000 or $50,000 flat.
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And that’s a huge tool for associations to control potential loss assessment or needing to assess for a large wind deductible, it also brings the deductible amount down closer to that 5% rule.
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Another thing we’ve done is gone back to the carriers either as we’re writing the policy or during the term and said, look.
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We’re not compliant with lenders requirements for 5% deductible. We have 25,000 per unit water deductibles on 100 units. It’s pushing us over that 5% rule.
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Will you cap the per deductible loss to an aggregate limit that gets us under 5%? And so give you an example.
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One of our carriers, we said, can we cap it at 25,000 per unit, but no more than $250,000 in the aggregate? And the carrier agreed.
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That brought us into compliance with the Fannie and Freddie requirements and so It’s a case-by-case basis for associations, but you should be able to work with your agent to see if there are adjustments that can be made if you are in the violation of that 5% rule. And we have seen carriers willing to work with us.
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And on the farewell, somebody asked a question that they thought policies had to be all in From 1979 to probably about five or seven years ago, Fannie and Freddie did require that all that policies either be single entity, regional SPACs, or all in, including the pictures
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Wall covering soil coverings, et cetera, within the units, except we’re not allowed by state law And the change is the change to the bear wall’s coverage where that is permitted now by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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But if you’re a lender or a servicer, you have to make sure that the unit owner has the appropriate HO6 coverage And typically where we think the appropriate place to fill the gap on the allocation of the deductible is with coverage A to the policy.
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As to underinsured or uninsured loss assessment claims, either notice should consider a loss assessment policy.
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One of the problems we’re having with Fannie and Freddie Mac is that they only allow this unirona coverage to fill in the gap If the loss is common to a geographic area. So I had a condominium attorney in Atlanta who said, well, gee, they’re not allowing the 5% and they’re not allowing the homeowners policies to cover it because they said that water is not a common
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Issue in Atlanta. The attorney thought death that it actually water was a common common issue everywhere, but that’s one of the challenges um Some associations are some associations are doing something that’s not for the faint of hat where I talk about the calculating in very exceptional cases
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Typically very, very high end. One in every 250 year events and one in a thousand And then sitting down and saying versus having our insurance increase from 57,000 to 673,000, That was a real, real case. We’re going to cover the risk for 250 years or 1,000 years. That will be a problem with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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But a very high end association could talk about it and they probably would want input from unit owners at a meeting saying that they were unit donors are okay with it. And in some cases, you just can’t get the coverage.
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So if you have $100 million. Of property and charitable replacement. And you can only get 50 million, you’re going to have a shortfall.
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So, um. Let’s go to that. And then finally, consider it in your maintenance resolution, things like saying people have to reduce, replace hot water heaters at warranty and other loss reduction policies.
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Could be a way of selling the condominium to the insurance carrier.
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Jeff, do you want to go into the slide on where associations, so that was the issue of what’s the price on Now we’re into the issue of what if you simply can’t get the insurance that’s required by your condominium documents
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Or the insurance that’s required by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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Right.
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And Fannie and Freddie and FHA all require 100% replacement. So it is a problem if you can’t get it. What do you suggest there?
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Jeff, if there are any answers that are even good.
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Sure. Yeah. And I think that, you know, to help people on the phone here, you know, what should you consider, you know, as your association and what are three things that are going to be looked at in your risk profile by an insurance company and what should you be focused on to make sure that you’re presenting the best possible submission to your carrier at renewal. And so there’s three things that the insurance companies are going to be looking at right now.
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First thing they’re going to be looking at is your claims history, right? So we talked a little about, you know, if we’re having a frequency, we’re seeing five or six.
00:30:13.000 –> 00:30:25.000
You know two three four thousand dollar claims hit our policy every year because we haven’t level set or raised our deductibles to a more appropriate number. That’s a step that can be looked at, right? So we can go to an insurance company and say.
00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:55.000
Look, they had four losses under $25,000 last year. If they increased the deductible to $25,000, You, the company, won’t be paying those anymore. Is that something you’ll consider? And the carriers will often say, yes, we’ll agree that if we put the deductible higher than those losses.
00:30:59.000 –> 00:31:09.000
A lightning strike right is most likely not going to happen again. But if you’re not controlling the losses from water, that can be a challenge. And so you want to take a look at your loss history.
00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:14.000
If you have a clean loss history, you’re going to be in a good position comparative to other associations.
00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:25.000
The other thing that you want to take a look at is In the past, the soft market, the underwriting wasn’t as stringent as it has been the same way the mortgage companies got in trouble a number of years ago, right? They weren’t
00:31:25.000 –> 00:31:39.000
Underwriting to the specs that they should have been. And so what we’re seeing now is the carriers are asking us what in detail What have you done to maintain your association or your property? They want detailed information on the age of roofs.
00:31:39.000 –> 00:31:44.000
They want detailed updates on plumbing and electrical updates in common areas.
00:31:44.000 –> 00:32:14.000
And in some cases, they’re asking for receipts reserve studies and replacement cost approvals to support this documentation.
00:32:14.000 –> 00:32:32.000
Your roofs. Well, they’re 30 years old. Well, now you’re going to get actual cash value potentially on your roof instead of replacement and you’re going to get a cosmetic roof exclusion. So the cosmetic damage to the roof is not going to be covered. So that’s something that doesn’t damage the performance of the roof or the water sealing of it.
00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000
And so what you’re starting Yeah.
00:32:33.000 –> 00:32:43.000
And if I can interrupt for a second the the um The actual cash value For Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which is the single family lending guidelines.
00:32:43.000 –> 00:32:48.000
Right. Sure.
00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:52.000
You have to be at 100% replacement. So ACV for roofs is unacceptable.
00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:57.000
Right.
00:32:57.000 –> 00:33:27.000
It would seem to make sense that a unit owner through their HO6 policy and the appropriate endorsements could get coverage, I would think in the nature of loss assessment coverage for a shortfall in the coverage for damage to the roofs because the roofs are
00:33:40.000 –> 00:33:41.000
Right.
00:33:41.000 –> 00:33:50.000
Depreciated in the 25-year route. So they have $100,000 left of value versus a million But Fannie and Freddie have not gotten to the point yet that we still, at least through CAI, continue negotiating for it, is to get Fanny and Freddie to do what they do for apartment buildings. Freddie on apartment buildings only require, do allow apartment owners to insure for actual cash value on roofs so
00:33:50.000 –> 00:34:20.000
That is a work in progress, but we’re dealing with some very, very finicky Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac folks who are skittish about the losses, especially post Surfside. And so we’re going to have to see where all that that goes so some of the solutions that we think Fannie and Freddie haven’t accepted them quite yet. So those discussions have to continue.
00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:40.000
And then I have something about consider amendment to ensure for less than 100%. If you… If you do that, every unit on a pie is subject to the idea that the documents can be amended. And if it’s amended to say we had one case where I mentioned where it was 30%,
00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:53.000
That you can only ensure for what the insurers, even with layers, will let you buy. So if you can’t get, if you just can’t get the 100% coverage.
00:34:53.000 –> 00:35:05.000
My suggestion is that you really need an amendment and you probably need somebody, an attorney looking at the condominium Documents Insurance Actions and looking at Fannie Mae and freddie Mac.
00:35:05.000 –> 00:35:19.000
And I’ll offer one thing because this is so complicated. For anybody who’s on this call, but if you’re a manager, not for all 100 of your associations, but for one.
00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:37.000
I’m more than happy to have a free half hour or an hour call with all of you to discuss how you might, what you might look at in terms of amending your condominium documents and what the concerns are and how we’re trying to keep board members from getting in trouble.
00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:45.000
My cell phone number, if you have a pen or a computer, is 781-413-5226.
00:35:45.000 –> 00:35:52.000
I’m sort of like the Maytag repairman. You absolutely can come and we can discuss this a bit.
00:35:52.000 –> 00:36:09.000
The condominiums in some case, next slide. Oh, no, we’re on it. No, next slide, Jake, please.
00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:16.000
Jeff, do you want to go into… This slide.
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:32.000
Yeah, so I think that, you know, so, you know, taking lenders out of it too, right? Because again, insurance companies right now aren’t going to agree with lenders and, you know, they’re not going to bend and adjust to lenders, right? Like there is a reality in some situations, associations will not be able to get 100% replacement cost, right?
00:36:32.000 –> 00:36:40.000
So I agree with you with making the amendments to the language there. The actual cash value, they’re not going to change that, right? If you have a 25 year old roof.
00:36:40.000 –> 00:36:56.000
They’re not going to suddenly go to replacement cost. And so you’re going to need to part of the conversation we were having is, you know, you really need to be making sure that when you’re budgeting and reserving, when are the roofs going to be repaired? What are you doing to maintain the roofs? What are you doing for electrical work, et cetera? That becomes really important.
00:36:56.000 –> 00:37:03.000
For that. And then I think the, you know, 100% replacement cost even is a great, you know, conversation for us.
00:37:03.000 –> 00:37:09.000
Part of the reason the property market got in such trouble was they were very lax on insurance to value for a number of years.
00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:17.000
And insurance to value means that you need to be as close to 100% of the replacement cost as you can for insurance. And it’s usually 80, 90, or 100%.
00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:46.000
With the increased cost of construction and the skyrocketing materials after COVID, you saw that some associations are still insured at $150, $200 a square foot. And when they go out and get a replacement cost appraisal done that cost could be $300 to $400 a square foot. And so you have a significant gap of where you should be insured to according to your documents and what you’ve been purchasing. And so some of the large rate increase has been
00:37:46.000 –> 00:37:57.000
Associations needing to get their insurance to value correct. So an example would be if you were insured at $50 million, but your appraisal said that you needed to be at $100 million.
00:37:57.000 –> 00:38:08.000
You have a 50% gap in the coverage that you’re requiring. And so a lot of associations have had to either increase their values in one shot or stair step their way up. And so that’s driven cost as well.
00:38:08.000 –> 00:38:24.000
But the best way for an association to understand what they actually need to carry for replacement costs is to have a replacement cost appraisal done. An appraiser is licensed to come out and say based on insurance costs, what would it cost for us to replace our association as it sits today?
00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:42.000
They do a wonderful job on the reports. Don’t quote me on the cost of them, but we see them run anywhere from $2,500 to $5,000, depending on the number of units. But that allows the board to understand what they should be insuring for, work with their agent and carrier to get closer to that value.
00:38:42.000 –> 00:38:50.000
And it also protects the board of directors that they did their due diligence and fiduciary duty to make sure the proper limits are being looked at.
00:38:50.000 –> 00:39:03.000
Now, it doesn’t mean you can buy your full appraised value in some cases, but it also provides a lot of protection and will help you understand as a board where we should be from an insurance value that we’re carrying.
00:39:03.000 –> 00:39:25.000
Jeff also told me last couple of days that uh carriers are starting to ask for these insurance replacement cost appraisals done by the condominium association We’ve been preaching it for years and years that every association should have this because
00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:33.000
As board members or as managers, if you have a policy And the agent and the carrier are willing to write you a $30 million policy.
00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:40.000
Most of us don’t have the ability to say, well, it’s $30 million.
00:39:40.000 –> 00:39:49.000
What it would cost to replace, is that the insurance replacement cost of the building? We know the land still has value. That’s not going to be destroyed. Maybe the foundations.
00:39:49.000 –> 00:39:54.000
But is the policy enough? And if you say no, or I don’t know.
00:39:54.000 –> 00:40:11.000
Then you’re looking at if the real valuation should be 60 million a $30 million shortfall. And again, what I said earlier, I don’t want to be the manager or the board members going to a group of unit owners and saying that
00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:20.000
Jay, we relied on the agent and the carrier, but they’re saying we can’t rely on them. And we’ve had our loss.
00:40:20.000 –> 00:40:37.000
Total loss with $30 million short. So… If you can go to, if you can get the insurance replacement cost, please do it. I think that’s also on our New Year’s resolution suggestions.
00:40:37.000 –> 00:40:59.000
And I think, Stephen, it becomes even more important to understand what insurance limit you should be carrying because as carriers restrict coverage, right? So in the past, you had blanket agreed amount or guaranteed replacement cost, meaning The total amount of insurance in a blanket is available for all the buildings. Agreed amount means the carrier will agree to the value on the policy and pay that without a coinsurance penalty.
00:40:59.000 –> 00:41:07.000
When you go from an Arbella or a Philadelphia to a Lloyd’s of London, you’re often seeing now that you have what’s called your stated value.
00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:12.000
So if the policy building in a policy is stated value of a million dollars.
00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:20.000
That’s the most that building will be able to collect on the policy. Without a blanket, it will collect the stated value on the statement of values.
00:41:20.000 –> 00:41:28.000
Let’s say that building really is worth $2 million. You have a significant gap for that building and that’s just one building on the premises.
00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:39.000
Understanding what the actual cost to repair your buildings and replace them are becomes really crucial as we’re starting to see restrictions in things such as blanket agreed amount going away.
00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:49.000
Because the companies are no longer willing to say, we’ll give $50 million blanket coverage, but find out at the time of loss that the association probably should have been carrying 100 million in coverage.
00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:57.000
Extremely important. It’s one thing that we preach. I just, for years, it’s been, you know, please get a replacement cost appraisal done.
00:41:57.000 –> 00:42:06.000
So the… The concern also raises its head when you get these pesky little lender questionnaires.
00:42:06.000 –> 00:42:13.000
That most of the banks are using and using a form that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sort of sea chest.
00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:18.000
But there are questions that if you get a lender questionnaire and the first question is.
00:42:18.000 –> 00:42:29.000
On insurance is the building insured for 100% replacement? If you don’t have the qualification, if you’re not an insurance replacement cost appraiser.
00:42:29.000 –> 00:42:44.000
My guess is you have no idea whether your policy is correct. And when the numbers I’ve heard is that probably 50% of the condominium associations in the country are not insured.
00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:57.000
For 100% of their replacement cost. And before we used to see guaranteed replacement cost policies. And no matter what it costs, we’ll replace it. I think those are probably being seen less and less.
00:42:57.000 –> 00:43:06.000
Let’s shift to the next slide i think we have to finish off a few pretty quickly.
00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:13.000
So if the homeowner, if the association can’t get certain coverages.
00:43:13.000 –> 00:43:22.000
Then there’s even more reason to go Bear Wiles because they have a cheaper cost The unit owner can get the coverage for everything within their unit.
00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:29.000
If you go bare walls. There might be a minor extra premium.
00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:39.000
If you’re paying for inside the unit, but it’s going to be less than what the association would pay if it were on the master policy.
00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And then maybe cutting edge is Chubb Insurance, which has a great reputation as paying claims.
00:43:48.000 –> 00:44:06.000
They’re not the cheapest premiums, but they offer homeowner policies They just came out with a policy statement what they’re what they call their tribe masterpiece policy, where they now say that no matter what the condominium documents say about who’s covering what.
00:44:06.000 –> 00:44:19.000
That Chubb, as insurer of my unit. Is going to be primary and is going to to deal with the losses to anything within my unit.
00:44:19.000 –> 00:44:32.000
And the thought is that it avoids gaps But Chubb also claims that they can be speedier in terms of settling a claim versus a unit owner being told, well.
00:44:32.000 –> 00:44:44.000
You think you have $50,000 of damage while the master carrier thinks you only have 20 000 And then it avoids the fight over the amount of coverage.
00:44:44.000 –> 00:44:53.000
Next slide. So loss runs are going to make it difficult for the seller carrier on your association.
00:44:53.000 –> 00:45:23.000
As a good rest. So we talked about the stack of units getting damaged by water damage claims, things such as requiring replacement of hot water heaters At the end of their warranty period, reporting requirements, if you see water, which potentially could evolve into mold claims and bigger claims.
00:45:24.000 –> 00:45:29.000
But you sort of want to sell your condominium association these days to the carrier.
00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:37.000
As to that you’ve done a risk management assessment, you’ve walked around the property, you’ve looked at signage.
00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:56.000
You looked at possible repair issues, looked at roofs that maybe are aging. But to assess those and get ahead of the ahead of our list and to be undertaking repair measures Because I don’t think the days of deferred maintenance, I think they’re long gone.
00:45:56.000 –> 00:46:24.000
And I think associations are going to have to bite the bullet and pay for items that need replacement and that need replacement That means that you can’t kick the can down to the next set of board members And you can’t be swayed by Unidona saying, oh, you can’t raise our assessments because they can’t afford it. The question is.
00:46:24.000 –> 00:46:43.000
What will it cost to maintain a certain building? And I guess my thought is that the safest route to avoid liability is to undertake those deferred maintenance measures, and that will also help selling your policy to the master in Charlotte.
00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:58.000
Condominium managers. Next slide. Condominium managers I’m going to be the nature of the business is the managers are expected to be the engineers, the architects, the CPAs, the attorneys and everything else.
00:46:58.000 –> 00:47:06.000
But they’re really responsible for tasking those things to professionals who can deal with them appropriately.
00:47:06.000 –> 00:47:14.000
But unfortunately, the condominium managers, if you go to a unit and I was meeting and the fees doubled, the insurance premiums double.
00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:32.000
Unfailing the managers take a hit. So you may need the insurance agent for the association doing a dog and pony show at the meeting to explain why this wasn’t something that’s something just can go away, that if carriers won’t quote you
00:47:32.000 –> 00:47:46.000
Less than $250,000 in premiums for your policy You can’t simply say, well, we’re going to have 50 million and that’s sufficient.
00:47:46.000 –> 00:48:01.000
There has to be advising of the unit owners, et cetera. And I sort of end that slide with the managers, and they should make it clear in the management contract, condominium insurance is just too, too dangerous.
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:19.000
But the manager should not be held to be the expert on the law or engineering insurance. The manager should be able to suggest the use of the professional experts Jeff, do you want to talk about not a whole lot of people talk about parametric insurance. I asked a few people across the country about it, probably about a year, year and a half ago.
00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:30.000
And Jeff seemed to have the best answer. But this is kind of interesting as a quasi insurance product, but it’s a little different. So I’ll let him explain it.
00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:49.000
Sure. Yeah. Just a quick, you know, quick blurb on parametric insurance. So when you look at parametric insurance, if you think about your property, right, and what parametric insurance does is say, okay, let’s say you’re in Gloucester on the water, right? And you want to ensure your seawalls, which are excluded from your property policy. You’ve got a multimillion dollar seawall.
00:48:49.000 –> 00:49:03.000
That’s excluded, right? And you’re also worried about you know wind coverage A parametric policy is a little bit different because it draws a geofence around your property, right? So you put a radius circle around the property extending out to a certain radius.
00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:14.000
And the coverage trigger is, in certain cases, the wind speed, right? So there’s a sliding scale on wind. And so it starts at, let’s say, 50 miles an hour up to a category five hurricane speed.
00:49:14.000 –> 00:49:20.000
The policy pays out on a percentage of wind speed that is achieved during an event.
00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:27.000
So let’s say we have a hurricane, it hits 120 miles an hour. That might be 100% payout on that policy.
00:49:27.000 –> 00:49:31.000
A third party weather service monitors that to confirm the event took place.
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:39.000
And those policies pay out within weeks instead of months. The trigger is you hit the event, it’s verified by a third party.
00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:52.000
And you have a payout within months. An example of the seawalls that I gave is people have called and said, well, we can’t share our seawall. We lost them in a nor’easter and we had to take out a $2 million loan and assess everybody to pay for this.
00:49:52.000 –> 00:49:58.000
With a parametric policy, you can actually cover those few walls and other landscaping items that are excluded.
00:49:58.000 –> 00:50:03.000
And you can also use them for wind. And so like, as we talked about in Florida.
00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:11.000
Some associations may not be able to buy wind coverage period or get it. They could buy a parametric policy to ensure for wind.
00:50:11.000 –> 00:50:33.000
It’s another product to talk about as insurance evolves. We’re seeing captive property insurance become available. It’s not really something for community associations yet, but a captive property program can help large portfolio owners with apartments and parametric, like I said, is just another thing to take a look at that could be a solution for high wind deductibles.
00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:38.000
Fire insurance or earthquakes and other items that are typically excluded in policies.
00:50:38.000 –> 00:50:50.000
But not something that’s not something Generally, I’m hearing board members and managers or kind of mini maternities really talking about. So if you don’t know what it exists, you can’t ask for it.
00:50:50.000 –> 00:51:07.000
But the next slide is the next slide. Next Tuesday is the New Year’s resolutions. And one of the solutions I’ll try to address that. So the first one we talked about, which is In 2025, have your association pay for an independent
00:51:07.000 –> 00:51:20.000
Insurance replacement cost appraisal, sometimes they’re called reconstruction cost appraisals And that will include doing a sampling of units. If it’s an all-in policy.
00:51:20.000 –> 00:51:33.000
Because you have to have an idea as to what the value of the improvements within the unit are. The second one we didn’t talk about, if you have a 100-year-old building or even a 10-year-old building and the code changes.
00:51:33.000 –> 00:51:41.000
And let’s say the building goes down or it goes 50% down. That’s usually the criteria. It kicks in new building code.
00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:56.000
So if you don’t have an automatic fire suppression system. But the building goes down and the city makes you put in a automatic high suppression system Those are not cheap.
00:51:56.000 –> 00:52:20.000
But what a lot of board members managers insurance agents and And lawyers don’t know is that lawyers don’t know that there is zero coverage for a fire suppression system that doesn’t exist. The only way you can have coverage is to buy ordinance of law insurance. So it’s not only on code upgrades.
00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:27.000
It’s also on… demolition of the undamaged portion of the building.
00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:37.000
And debris removal. So there are three parts to the ordinance of law. Some carriers offer $300,000 automatically.
00:52:37.000 –> 00:52:46.000
And that’s good or bad. It’s good that associations have some. The problem I’ve seen is that If a number of 300,000 is listed.
00:52:46.000 –> 00:53:01.000
Condominium managers and board members will look at the policy and say, oh, the agent and carrier are telling us that 300,000 is enough.
00:53:01.000 –> 00:53:11.000
The agents and carriers consider you to be, they consider themselves to be order takers, like at McDonald’s. You want $30 million of insurance.
00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:17.000
Here’s your $30 million of insurance. You didn’t say anything about ordinance of law. We didn’t give you any.
00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:32.000
Or it was your responsibility to get a code expert and an architect to figure out what would it cost to be current code? What would it cost to demolish the undamaged portions, what it costs to pre-removal?
00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:49.000
Consider increasing the liability in D&O policy. I guess I’m sick of saying that Danny Mae and Freddie Mac still have a million dollars for minimum liability coverage.
00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:57.000
Uh… A million dollars is the same as it was in 1979. In these days.
00:53:57.000 –> 00:54:21.000
A million dollars is not what it used to be. And the problem we have is that if you have a law such as the double murder in South Boston you as a board member, I think, want to be able to say or check out what would 5 million cost or 10 million
00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:47.000
Or 50 million or 100 million. Of umbrella policies over, and this is important, the general liability the most likely standalone DNO policy and not owned and hired auto And then the umbrella All of them typically available in reducing amounts
00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:55.000
So to go from 50 million to 100 million. Might be nickels and dimes comparatively.
00:54:55.000 –> 00:55:09.000
So the only thing I can say, and it was an answer I was given 40 years ago about how much liability insurance and D&O insurance is enough in a condominium. The best answer I ever got to that 40 years ago was
00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:15.000
How much can you afford? Because the amount of a claim can be astronomical.
00:55:15.000 –> 00:55:24.000
Then I have buy and if any workman’s comp policy that covers you if anybody is deemed to be your worker by the Industrial Accident Board.
00:55:24.000 –> 00:55:35.000
The problem is you call a plumber in at three in the morning, you’re unable to get the appropriate insurance and endorsement to the policy to name you as additional insured.
00:55:35.000 –> 00:55:47.000
If somebody gets damaged on the property, you want to make sure that your policy, workers comp policy can cover it if nobody else does.
00:55:47.000 –> 00:55:53.000
Consider earthquake insurance. That ellipse on the roof of the globe insurance section.
00:55:53.000 –> 00:56:03.000
Decades ago, every year would say to people in this area by earthquake insurance that the Northeast that’s on the second west wall from the United States.
00:56:03.000 –> 00:56:14.000
And it’s something to consider. Fidelity Insurance, name the manager as designated agent and additional obligor.
00:56:14.000 –> 00:56:21.000
Are providing cracks with volunteers and set our cyber crime coverage.
00:56:21.000 –> 00:56:44.000
Jeff going to talk to you a little more about that, but I think it’s not bought as much as it should be. And we hear every day about cyber crimes, about people holding hostage big corporations and not releasing their website, their portals back to them unless millions of dollars is paid.
00:56:44.000 –> 00:57:07.000
You need insurance to have that coverage. And the final one is the final one is The expert insurance agent makes no more of a commission selling you a policy, apples to apples Then your crazy uncle uh uncle bob so if
00:57:07.000 –> 00:57:22.000
So don’t use somebody who As Jake said, sells life insurance policy, but knows nothing about condominium insurance. It’s perfectly fine to say how many condominiums does your agency write for?
00:57:22.000 –> 00:57:34.000
Is it 500 or is it, oh, we do one here or there. You’re not going to pay more And you’re going to look good if you have the best agent versus the worst.
00:57:34.000 –> 00:57:59.000
And there are, not to, I know this is jeff’s Or to shine in the sun. But we have, I’m going to miss some, but we have Rodman Insurance. We have… Brown and Brown. We have Bob Massey. We have Hub International, John Piazza
00:57:59.000 –> 00:58:09.000
Katie Dodge at USI. If there are six or seven agents who really know condominiums.
00:58:09.000 –> 00:58:19.000
Please use them. And everybody will feel much better versus you’re relying on somebody who doesn’t know condominium insurance.
00:58:19.000 –> 00:58:22.000
Jake, questions and answers?
00:58:22.000 –> 00:58:33.000
Yeah, so we got some great questions. We appreciate. And yeah, I see a few hands are raised. If you want to type the question.
00:58:33.000 –> 00:58:48.000
That would be great. We did get one of the Good questions I got towards the end is wouldn’t it behoove the insurance company to have its customers properly insured? Jeff, what are your thoughts on that? I mean.
00:58:48.000 –> 00:58:56.000
I did do in a past life, which wasn’t too long ago, I guess, but I did do insurance defense for a little.
00:58:56.000 –> 00:59:02.000
The claims process when it gets to litigation can be quite the headache on the back end.
00:59:02.000 –> 00:59:10.000
But I kind of wanted to get your thoughts, Jeff, on that question of of properly insuring properties.
00:59:10.000 –> 00:59:40.000
Yeah. And yes, and to answer that question, Jake, yes, the insurance companies do want you to be insured properly. And I think that’s why you’re seeing a little bit more of the, you know, hey, you know, prove to us what your replacement cost is versus just verbally telling it to us. Show us that you’ve done the improvements and betterments that you’ve said, you know, we’re going out now after COVID. You lost a lot of field inspections. And so Most associations now will have a loss control visit 30, 45 days after binding to take a look at the conditions of the property. Are there trees that are dangerously close to the building that might need to be removed? You know, is there aluminum wiring being found within the property that people weren’t aware of that needs to be remediated?
00:59:49.000 –> 01:00:02.000
Yeah, the goal is to get insured to value and then also to continue to improve the risk profile which allows the companies to pay less claims and then hopefully not charge as significant premium for those associations that comply with those items.
01:00:02.000 –> 01:00:09.000
And to add just a tiny bit to that, to repeat what I stated earlier.
01:00:09.000 –> 01:00:19.000
Unless Jeff corrects me, the insurance carrier may want you to have adequate amounts of insurance.
01:00:19.000 –> 01:00:32.000
But the agent and the carrier are going to kick and and insist that when they wrote your policy for $50 million.
01:00:32.000 –> 01:00:38.000
Even if it should have been 100 million. That all they did was took your order, like McDonald’s.
01:00:38.000 –> 01:00:43.000
You want $50 million of insurance. Here it is. So they may want it.
01:00:43.000 –> 01:00:49.000
But they’re not going to go out on a limb unless they have a special relationship to the insured.
01:00:49.000 –> 01:00:55.000
And say that we’re guaranteeing that this amount is all you need for coverage.
01:00:55.000 –> 01:01:24.000
Right. And when you said, so just that’s a great point, Stephen. So as a manager, as a board member, when you sign the statement of values, the statement of values on property insurance is the amount of insurance that you’re carrying. And it usually gives you a breakout Of each building, the total limit of insurance. If you sign that statement of values, that’s your promise to the insurance company. You’re certifying that $50 million is the amount of insurance that you’re purchasing and being covered. That’s not the agent determining 50 million. That’s not the insurance company determining 50 million or the property manager. The board
01:01:24.000 –> 01:01:32.000
Is certifying that they agree that the limit of insurance they’re purchasing is that number on paper. So that’s a great point.
01:01:32.000 –> 01:01:45.000
And then Jaguar running a bit over, so I don’t know if you have a final comment or Jeff wants to give a final word or if you both want to give a final word.
01:01:45.000 –> 01:01:48.000
And then let these nice people go for the weekend.
01:01:48.000 –> 01:02:06.000
Yeah, we can just miss the class. Jeff, and again, if we don’t get to your questions today, we are going to follow up and send out our thoughts. I see some questions are pretty specific to maybe your association Which is another point I’d like to make is
01:02:06.000 –> 01:02:19.000
Insurance process and review and selection and the claims process. It’s not a one size fits all piece of insight. It usually depends on the size. I know we mentioned some factors that are involved.
01:02:19.000 –> 01:02:28.000
We want to make sure that we’re not kind of trying to address a specific question when there may be more details that we need. And Jeff
01:02:28.000 –> 01:02:40.000
Though I did, that crazy offer that I made about a half hour or so or an hour of my time.
01:02:40.000 –> 01:02:50.000
For free if I gave you my cell phone number, 781-413-5226. For those who are asking specifically about their associations.
01:02:50.000 –> 01:02:55.000
Assuming we don’t have a conflict and we don’t want to interfere if you’re already represented by legal counsel.
01:02:55.000 –> 01:03:03.000
But more than happy to have those discussions but Jeff, any recaps to… Today?
01:03:03.000 –> 01:03:17.000
Yeah, I think that, you know, the big recap is there is some optimism in the market that we’ll see more stable rates heading into this year. And I think it’s going to be very important that the associations continue to do the things we talked about, right? Making sure you’re insuring to value.
01:03:17.000 –> 01:03:33.000
Understanding and working to control your claims history, and then really documenting and providing a narrative each year on what are we doing as an association to improve our risk profile, right? Are we putting water sensors in the units? Are we replacing burst proof hose?
01:03:33.000 –> 01:03:56.000
The more detail you can provide to your agent and the better narrative that I can take or an agent can take to the underwriter to prove that this association is a good risk for them is going to go to the top of that underwriter’s pile. So it’s very important to do a thorough review When we do a review with our clients, we go over the majority of the things that we talked about on the phone. Stephen, we’ve had these conversations for years, right? So we’ll do a deep dive with you and, you know, again.
01:03:56.000 –> 01:04:15.000
Make sure you’re reviewing these items and doing the best you can because that’s how you’re going to control insurance costs in the future. In some cases, rates are going to stay high and they’ll be here for a while, but the more you can do to prove that you’re at the top of the pile from a risk management standpoint, the better off you’re going to do with pricing and renewals.
01:04:15.000 –> 01:04:28.000
And they invent very carefully. My exposure to the wildfire issue came from one in a different state out west where
01:04:28.000 –> 01:04:48.000
The agent sent me over the certificate of insurance And… The first line in capitals was… This policy does not cover wildfires.
01:04:48.000 –> 01:04:57.000
And I asked the agent, are lenders giving loans to these properties? And it’s, yeah, they might ask about how much fidelity insurance there is.
01:04:57.000 –> 01:05:20.000
But some are. I think most of the most the lender’s services are not going to approve approve that for… book coverage um but um uh you have to speak to the agent and see where what the best routes are for
01:05:20.000 –> 01:05:26.000
Going forward. Jake, any… And somebody said, no, Linda’s not looking for wildfire coverage.
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Art of work.
01:05:31.000 –> 01:05:46.000
My example was on this particular one. I think it was in Wyoming, but the person at the Linda’s office.
01:05:46.000 –> 01:05:59.000
Somehow missed. The capital letters that wildfire was excluded. So again, the good services the good landers across the country.
01:05:59.000 –> 01:06:16.000
Going to catch this. Be on the lookout yourself because you don’t want to find out that you purchased a an insurance policy that doesn’t cover such normal things such as fires.
01:06:16.000 –> 01:06:30.000
So it’s a little scary out there. I’m not sure how many of you have the expression RTFP, read the full policy Some people use a different word for F.
01:06:30.000 –> 01:06:39.000
But unless you read the policy, the declarations pages, the condominium documents, look at the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guidelines.
01:06:39.000 –> 01:06:48.000
You’re going to get the puzzle wrong. Well, there’s the potential to. So one, use good agents, two, use good carriers.
01:06:48.000 –> 01:07:04.000
And three, make sure that you do your final look at what you’re buying to make sure that these folks didn’t miss anything. If you don’t have one and think you need a risk management advisor.
01:07:04.000 –> 01:07:27.000
That’s something that you can do. But we do have some great agents in the Northeast. Jake asked me a question uh by a text a couple of minutes ago as to where if you’re in Florida or California or Wyoming, can we give agents because of our involvement with CAI?
01:07:27.000 –> 01:07:51.000
We know agents in all 50 states, District of Columbia Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, and Jeff himself said that what I thought was the tiny little cape office is more like Google or Google Uber in his big business and does do states and not least.
01:07:51.000 –> 01:07:58.000
States, but use a qualified agent such as jeff And I think you’ll sleep better.
01:07:58.000 –> 01:08:15.000
I think that’s all I have to say, Jake. Yeah, I know there’s a ton of questions that Jake If you can cut and paste them, we’ll answer those so you’ll get the answers probably next tuesday or wednesday For me, thank you, everybody, and have a great weekend.
01:08:15.000 –> 01:08:16.000
Jake?
01:08:16.000 –> 01:08:20.000Thank you, everybody. Happy New Year.