Join Stephen Marcus, Jake Marcus, and Special Guest, Bill Finnegan, President and CEO of Coventry Lumber, part of Finetco family of lumberyards
In recent weeks, there have been significant changes to laws as it relates to Accessory Dwelling Units, or ADUs, which is at the forefront of the housing innovation wave. ADUs are small, independent living units that are inside, attached to, or detached but on the same parcel as a primary residence – have the potential to address a variety of housing-related challenges like affordability, equity, and environmental issues. And because ADUs generally are small infill units, they can achieve these gains without significantly altering the character of existing residential neighborhoods. A recent Massachusetts amendment to the Zoning Act now states that “no zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit, unreasonably restrict, or require a single permit or other discretionary zoning approval for the use of land or structures for a single accessory dwelling, or rental thereof, in a single-family residential zoning district.”
The legislature effectively allows for ADUs “as of right”, which is no longer subject to discretionary zoning approvals. And, in the condominium, HOA, or townhouse context, owners could likely rent out their garage or ADU structures if the governing documents do not state otherwise.
As such, in this segment of the Marcus Hour, we will discuss best practices related to the creation and regulation of ADUs as it relates to the new zoning amendment, while also discussing Bill Finnegan’s involvement in building a ADU on properties, which includes providing customers with basic design packets containing elevations, basic dimensions, floor plans, and basic kitchen design. Bill Finnegan and his team has significant experience in facilitating the design project, designating preferred contractors who are familiar with the process, and providing a timeline to construct ADUs appropriately.
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Jake Marcus: Yeah.
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Jake Marcus: okay.
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Stephen Marcus: Are starting to filter into the
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Stephen Marcus: the room they were in the waiting room. So
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Stephen Marcus: take we’ll get things going here, or he’ll give him a couple of minutes.
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Jake Marcus: Give him a second.
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Stephen Marcus: That’s a.
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Jake Marcus: Yeah.
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Stephen Marcus: There it is!
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Jake Marcus: I think.
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Jake Marcus: Line up, out, out the door.
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Stephen Marcus: Billy, your son’s listening in.
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Bill Finnegan: I assume they’re going to be
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Bill Finnegan: joining in. Yep.
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Stephen Marcus: Yeah.
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Bill Finnegan: They registered, or or
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Bill Finnegan: yeah, alright.
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Jake Marcus: Excellent.
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Jake Marcus: Alright. So we were just chit chatting, but we’re ready to get going on. Episode 18 of the Marcus hour
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Jake Marcus: that we’ve an exciting one today, a very relevant topic to the accessory dwelling units and kind of its interplay with what we’ve been seeing in Massachusetts. What we’ve been seeing with condos and hoas and what our guest today has seen in Rhode Island, and and what he’s been doing with his company as a way to stay ahead of the curve with
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Jake Marcus: with what’s happening in the in the accessory dwelling unit or adu industry. So, without further ado or without further adu I present to you our 2 guest or our guests today. On top of our our regular panel of of the Marcus sauer of myself, Jake, Marcus and and the the famous Stephen Marcus and we today have Bill Finnegan
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Jake Marcus: Bill. Thanks for joining.
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Bill Finnegan: Absolutely thanks for letting me join you. Yeah, talk.
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Jake Marcus: As well
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Jake Marcus: so should be, should be a good conversation about all the developments we’ve been seeing. Again per usual. Feel free to drop in any questions, as the as the kind of seminar goes on.
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Jake Marcus: just to give you a background on, on kind of what
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Jake Marcus: what we do where Alcock and Marcus a full service condo and Hoa specialty firm, but also wades into other areas of
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Jake Marcus: real estate and development. Land use. Zoning is also included in that, and there has been a lot of zoning changes to the Massachusetts law recently. We practice in Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Florida, Maine, and New Hampshire today we’ll mostly be talking about.
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Jake Marcus: We’ll discuss all 5 States, but we’ll mostly be discussing the new zoning developments in in Massachusetts as it relates to adus or accessory dwelling units as well as what we’ll kind of touch on touch on what’s happened in Rhode Island, and what what Bill has seen in Rhode Island.
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Jake Marcus: so let’s get to. I want to share my screen. Just so we have the
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Jake Marcus: the, the Powerpoint. We’re going to be presenting today.
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Jake Marcus: and so this is the this is who we got today. We got Bill Finnegan, president and CEO of Coventry lumber
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Jake Marcus: which is a is is it a branch of Finetco Bill?
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Bill Finnegan: Yes, Finet Co. Is the parent company, if you will, and we have we operate Coventry lumber in Coventry, Rhode Island.
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Bill Finnegan: Eel Morse, and Wareham, Mass. And Westhaven lumber in Westhaven, Connecticut.
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Bill Finnegan: So all all 3 of those lumber yards operate under the Finetco
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Bill Finnegan: flag. If you will.
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Jake Marcus: And for those who might not know what what a lumber yard is, can you? I mean, I’m sure most people do hopefully. But can you just describe what a lumber yard is?
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Bill Finnegan: Sure, we we work with custom home builders, developers.
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Bill Finnegan: homeowners.
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Bill Finnegan: And we do. We? We offer basically everything from the foundation up from siding windows, roofing, flooring, interior doors, kitchen design.
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Bill Finnegan: engineering support for roof trusses and floor systems.
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Bill Finnegan: exterior decking and railings.
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Bill Finnegan: Basically everything you would need for for building or renovating
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Bill Finnegan: a
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Bill Finnegan: a construction project from the foundation up.
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Jake Marcus: Excellent, and you’ve recently been
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Jake Marcus: doing things with with adus correct.
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Bill Finnegan: Yes, we. We had an interest over the last couple of years. Increased interest in adus
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Bill Finnegan: which is, you know, as we all know just a
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Bill Finnegan: a label that’s been put on a, a, an additional home or a structure on a property. So we’ve been dealing with those for years. But with the label of Adu and trying to streamline that process we’ve
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Bill Finnegan: we’ve been trying to get ahead of that curve.
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Jake Marcus: Excellent.
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Jake Marcus: that’s good to know. Yes, and we’ll be discussing kind of the best practice best best practices as well as kind of next steps in the implementation of and regulation of of adus, and what we can kind of see going forward.
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Jake Marcus: and and what at least in W. We’ll be discussing, you know generally about adus what the new law means. But we’ll also be discussing the interplay with condos or hoas, and and we’ll, we’ll kind of get into. Yeah. The different types of adus. What types of adus that?
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Jake Marcus: That that Coventry lumber offers? As part of their package and kind of what the process is in creating an adu at your property. And and and I think, as far as condos. What the biggest thing we’ll want to kind of be discussing is. How do you regulate? How do you? What, what are your what are your kind of
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Jake Marcus: How do you make sure it’s done right? How do you make sure that you’re not overstepping or prohibiting outside of the law? And kind of just getting into, especially as as this, these adus become more accessible.
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Jake Marcus: So the next slide and there’s you, Bill, your your mug shot right here.
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Jake Marcus: if you want to reach out to Bill directly we have his contact information. B finnegan@phonetco.net also can reach out to Ryan. That’s your son. Correct.
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Bill Finnegan: Yes, I have.
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Stephen Marcus: You know.
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Bill Finnegan: I. I have 3 sons in the business. Shawn Ryan and Evan and
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Bill Finnegan: Ryan is is the one primarily focused in sales.
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Jake Marcus: Very good. No.
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Jake Marcus: and I’ve been.
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Bill Finnegan: Lacroix. Dan Lacroix is
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Bill Finnegan: on our executive management team, and he handles all he’s our main point of contact for the adu initiative that we have going on, and he works out of the corporate office in Coventry, Rhode Island.
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Jake Marcus: Excellent. Okay, so th those will be your your people to go to, as far as you know, learning more about what what goes into these adus and and kind of the the process in in in in getting one in your on your property, or figuring out how it can be regulated on your property. So.
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Stephen Marcus: Jay, could I take a like a
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Stephen Marcus: small step back?
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Jake Marcus: Go right ahead!
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Stephen Marcus: Okay, thanks, Jake. So
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Stephen Marcus: affordable housing units and housing units in general.
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Stephen Marcus: If we take Massachusetts.
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Stephen Marcus: I I think the, we’re like a hundred, 75,000, or 250,000 units short of where we where we should be across the country. There are
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Stephen Marcus: issues depending on the State with, a lack of housing both affordable and and market rate. And in addition to that, we have people
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Stephen Marcus: either when they retire, are on fixed incomes, or to keep, say, in a specific town firefighters and teachers, so that they can afford to to live in the town that they work the idea of additional income, or an expanded family in our
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Stephen Marcus: departments, etc. Has come up as one way of states dealing with local government.
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Stephen Marcus: So what we’re talking about today, we’re looking at today is really sort of a crystal ball. So
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Stephen Marcus: what the Legislature, for example, in Massachusetts, passed couple of weeks ago. In the earlier morning hours of the last day of July. So last day of legislative session.
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Stephen Marcus: Was a law that prohibits cities and towns
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Stephen Marcus: from restricting ad use under certain circumstances.
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Stephen Marcus: So we just want to make it clear at the beginning, that the law, for example, in Massachusetts, is not the law or a law that says that a condominium unit owner and a 10 story high rise is able to start building out enough that your condominium documents are gonna detail, what can be done and can’t be done?
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Stephen Marcus: But we think that over time the developers may come in with products that do have these adu units. And now we’re thinking of not just condominiums. But think of homeowner associations and property owner associations and land owner associations where each owner owns their lot, and there is the ability to expand.
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Stephen Marcus: So we figured something that for your crystal ball that you should at least be aware of.
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Stephen Marcus: because eventually, these things seem to affect private agreements, such as Condominium Associations and homeowner associations
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Stephen Marcus: back to you, Jake.
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Jake Marcus: Yep, absolutely. So that’s a that’s a good good backdrop. I think. Adus, yeah, no matter what you call them, whether it’s in law, in law houses, whether it’s whether it’s second units accessory apartments the the expansion of them has been tremendous over the last
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Jake Marcus: the last kind of.
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Jake Marcus: I guess, few years definitely, but has been ex extending for
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Jake Marcus: for for years and years. There was actually a case study by Community Association Institute. Cai providing some insight as to what has led to, you know the response of the suburban sprawl, the the socioeconomic demographics, the the different changes across the across regions that have led to to this kind of
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Jake Marcus: this kind of venture but yeah, I I guess to take an even
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Jake Marcus: to dumb it down even more, or take it down a step even more is what are what are adus? Small, independent living units that are inside attached to or detached, but on the same parcel as a primary residence, they have the potential to address a variety of housing, related challenges like affordability, equity and environmental issues. Moreover, because adus generally are small infill units.
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Jake Marcus: they can achieve these gains without significantly altering the character of existing residential neighborhoods. So that’s kind of why, we we at least see it as
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Jake Marcus: a a a chance. Where condos and hoas and community associations really are are at the at the forefront of this, and it’s really prevalent in in condos and hoas and and in town homes.
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Jake Marcus: yeah. And and as as the as the definition kind of mentioned. They could be interior they could be attached to. They could be detached but they’re on the same property.
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Jake Marcus: so you wouldn’t see them as much in a high rise. But but you could see them in in more sprawling especially suburban areas.
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Jake Marcus: typically the the most, the most often
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Jake Marcus: and correct me if I’m wrong here, Bill, where you see these is, is typically an an Attic garage or basement, or just land that’s adjacent to the to the property. Is that correct?
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Bill Finnegan: Yeah, most of the ones that we’ve seen have been
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Bill Finnegan: either additions onto an existing home
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Bill Finnegan: or a separate dwelling on the property. No, you know what what we have been.
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Bill Finnegan: A lot of our contractors deal with
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Bill Finnegan: garage renovations or Attic renovations or basement renovations, but we would not. We wouldn’t label that as an adu on on what we’ve done so far. But so most of the involvement we’ve had have been those separate units.
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Jake Marcus: Got it. No, that makes sense.
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Jake Marcus: What what area I mean. I know you’re you’re in Rhode Island. Have. Have you done much in mass yet? Or is that still kind of new or.
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Bill Finnegan: No, that that’s that’s been. Again. The the label adu is is new. We we’ve done additions on properties and and renovations for for years at all of our locations, but as it as an adu labeled project we have not. We have not had
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Bill Finnegan: one in Massachusetts yet
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Bill Finnegan: identified as an adu.
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Jake Marcus: Okay.
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Bill Finnegan: And just just to clarify. I I don’t want there to be any confusion. The all, all of the projects that we’ve worked on have been with homeowners and not with condo associations. So I don’t. I don’t want to give a misrepresentation to anyone on this call that that this is something that we’ve seen a movement with
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Bill Finnegan: condo or property development.
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Jake Marcus: Got it.
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Stephen Marcus: Have have you done anything with, for example? using the existing space?
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Stephen Marcus: Can you take, for example, a
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Stephen Marcus: 2 or 3 car garage and make that into something or or are you seeing these as additions, separate structures, or within the existing structure?
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Bill Finnegan: These ours have been addition and addition, a a new structure. So they’re not converting a garage. But again, Steven, we’ve been involved in all those projects. But as the under the this adu initiative.
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Bill Finnegan: they’ve been additional space, separate space, detached space
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Bill Finnegan: and the conversion of the attics or the garages or the basements would be more of just a a project that gets done without any
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Bill Finnegan: significant communication to us. So
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Bill Finnegan: if that answers your question.
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Stephen Marcus: And I think the other thing to point out that that Dylan formed us of during our discussions leading up to today were,
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Stephen Marcus: he’s not his company is not selling anything. In other words, his being a a guest is not because he has a direct product that he is looking to sell but rather I assume it’s that he has
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Stephen Marcus: come up with ideas and lumber and and all for contractors and homeowners, etc. Have a place of it being supplied. Do you get involved in like the designs, Bill? Or the people tell you what this is, what we would like to do.
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Bill Finnegan: Yeah, well, we do sell. We do sell all of the materials that are needed for these projects. And what we
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Bill Finnegan: if we’re going to jump ahead a little bit. We we’ve put together some standard
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Bill Finnegan: specs that we can provide to customers to come in.
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Bill Finnegan: and if if if if this, if the layouts and the designs that we have fit there
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Bill Finnegan: exact need they can. We can provide them with stamped drawings
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Bill Finnegan: that, take them through the whole process of, you know. Basically, our primary customers have been Mr. And missus, whoever that want to add this on to their their home.
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Bill Finnegan: for whoever it is, or for an investment.
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Bill Finnegan: and we have the, as you can see in front of us right now. The kitchen design and the the roof truss spec
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Bill Finnegan: the the floor system spec, and we can accelerate or streamline that entire process where they’re basically picking colors. And we’ve lined up contractors.
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Bill Finnegan: We even have a few architects involved. If there needs to be a modification, and that whole process could be, it has. It never has been, but it could be as quick as same day if if they’re ready, and one of our standard designs fits their need perfectly.
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Bill Finnegan: But but you know, Stephen, you said something, and I’m on the panel, so I don’t mean to introduce more questions. But when you, when you took a step backwards, it’s interesting what you were talking about with these condo associations and these developments, because I don’t know if there’s a limit as to how many ad use can be on a property, but it certainly could be a cost, effective way for these
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Bill Finnegan: properties to supplement their income because they don’t have the all of the
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Bill Finnegan: size requirements and the requirements of an additional unit, and then a a development may be able to add on multiple adus as rental income opportunities. So I I
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Bill Finnegan: personally know a few developers. That that’s an interesting
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Bill Finnegan: point that I got out of what you had to say.
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Jake Marcus: Yeah, I think that’s that’s a really good segue into kind of
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Jake Marcus: where we kind of see this being kind of an opportunity for
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Jake Marcus: at least what we’ve been seeing in Massachusetts, and what we’ve been seeing with the Boston pilot program.
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Jake Marcus: An opportunity where there’s a lot more affordable affordable housing.
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Jake Marcus: So before I get to that, I kind of just wanted to talk about actually let me get let me get a little bit to the backdrop of of, you know, or just going back to the the history of how we got to where we are today. The interestingly in the in this Us. Department of housing and urban development case study.
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Jake Marcus: There were 6 programs or 6 case studies of example adus or ordinances and programs that they looked at in the mid 2 thousands. I believe it was 2,000 2,007 or 2,008 or mid to late 2 thousands. And basically there were 3.
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Jake Marcus: So 3 separate
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Jake Marcus: towns within Massachusetts out of 6 that they looked at
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Jake Marcus: that we’re in.
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Jake Marcus: or or 6 programs that they looked at, and 3 were in Massachusetts the other. The 3 that weren’t in Massachusetts were Portland, Oregon, Santa Cruz, California, and Fourier County, Virginia.
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Jake Marcus: The 3 in Massachusetts, were Lexington, Massachusetts.
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Jake Marcus: Barnstall, Mill, Barnsville, Massachusetts, and well fleet Massachusetts. Interestingly enough.
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Jake Marcus: and the way they looked at these 3 regions ranging in in kind of
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Jake Marcus: socio demographic ranging in space. I’m 2 2 on the Cape technically, Barnstable, which, which, consists of a lot of villages.
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Jake Marcus: but Wellfleet, which was considered more kind of a a elderly demographic, and and had a lot more zoning board of appeals, obstacles compared to the other 2. Whereas Lexington has a has a complete complete range of of housing choices and population diversity. So I found that interesting that 3 Massachusetts States already
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Jake Marcus: have had kind of an adu program in place or ordinances in place. That have kind of obviously developed in the State over time. But but have been in place since the early to or mid to late. 2 thousands. Steven, I I know you. You’ve been to Wallfleet a few times. Right.
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Stephen Marcus: Yes, I have. Jake.
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Jake Marcus: Tell me about. Tell me about what you know about wealthy.
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Stephen Marcus: Yeah.
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Stephen Marcus: I I only know about. If you look at a map in Massachusetts, there’s a finger that points out, and it’s
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Stephen Marcus: has water on both sides, and that’s best known as
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Stephen Marcus: Choqueset Neck Road.
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Bill Finnegan: Right here.
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Stephen Marcus: And the the and the issues that the issues are the have been erosion. Heavy erosion issues that have hammered the the shoreline.
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Stephen Marcus: So. But
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Stephen Marcus: the in in our involvement with Wealthley. What’s interesting is that Jake mentioned seniors living in Wealthley.
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Stephen Marcus: the there are
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Stephen Marcus: a lot of people who have homes in Wealthley that they may have owned since 19 sixties, and the houses have gone up dramatically in value. So now you have people coming in tearing down homes, putting up new homes.
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Stephen Marcus: and the town of Wealthy gets gets involved in in those kind of issues. But the other issues are are real estate taxes go up. So what do you do if you bought a house in 1,960 and well, fleet for $30,000 that’s
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Stephen Marcus: sitting on an acre or 2 of land, and is now worth
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Stephen Marcus: 3 million dollars. But your job, let’s say, is a school teacher or firefighter, and you’re you’re never in retirement, and the amount of taxes is too much
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Stephen Marcus: to be affordable. I think that’s where adus may come into play for some people, it may give them ability either, but with extended family or by additional income, for with an adu to be able to stay in wealth late, so that they’re not forced to move out.
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Stephen Marcus: I’m not sure I’ve passed the question you were directed at
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Stephen Marcus: at Jake, but that’s the best answer I can give.
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Bill Finnegan: Well, if I could, if I could just jump in and add on to what you just said, Stephen, in those 2 particular areas. And actually all of the Cape
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Bill Finnegan: you know, a a
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Bill Finnegan: one bedroom unit in well, Fleet during the summer would probably rent for for 8 to $10,000 a week. So I think you’re gonna I I know a fair amount of people that own real estate on the Cape, and they have been very restrictive, certainly, adding on another unit at any structure, was was never going to be allowed. And now, with this
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Bill Finnegan: new adu law, if if they’re able to do that, and they can not move out of their home for the summer or move into this smaller unit for the summer and rent out the big house.
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Bill Finnegan: That’s what I’ve heard from actual homeowners
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Bill Finnegan: of what their thoughts are, what they’re going to do with this in the on the Cape. Specifically.
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Stephen Marcus: Okay? And and I did like, yeah.
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Stephen Marcus: the the graphic you gave of the Massachusetts of the
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Stephen Marcus: You. You’re giving a
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Bill Finnegan: Yes, yes, I’m very familiar with the landscape on the Cape, and I always.
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Stephen Marcus: Definitely. I always offer.
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Bill Finnegan: Visual. Thank you.
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Stephen Marcus: So so some. Sometime after this call Jake and I will get on the phone with you and and talk about our wealth lead experience. It’s sort of an interesting interesting case study in itself. But that’s kind of interesting interesting that somebody who’s say on fixed income or is a modest means in terms of the income
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Stephen Marcus: that they they make with an adu that costs X
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Stephen Marcus: can now have the potential for 13 weeks during the summer
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Stephen Marcus: to charge 8 to $10,000 a week. That’s a game changer in terms of being able to afford the taxes and the cost of living and all that. So you don’t have to move out of the town that you’ve lived at your your whole whole life. if you bought something in 1960,
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Stephen Marcus: it very well could have been for $30,000 dollars. We know of condominiums in Boston.
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Stephen Marcus: Be in the street for 20 or $30,000 back in 1972 and obviously jumped up dramatically. But the the ability of paying the the costs and the cost of living and the taxes this can be a solution for for a bunch of people.
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Jake Marcus: For example.
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Stephen Marcus: Somebody somebody asked, Tell me whether it’s too early for the question. Somebody said somebody asked whether a town can choose to ignore the Massachusetts law?
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Stephen Marcus: I assume the answer is, no.
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Jake Marcus: Can the town choose to ignore the mass? Adu! Law! If if it’s in line with the the footprint and the meets the requirements. I don’t think it can be denied.
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Jake Marcus: I believe under the new law, so adus will not need local zoning approval. Because the U. The unit, or if the units are smaller, of either 900 square feet or half the square footage of the primary home.
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Jake Marcus: And the law also says, no municipality shall unreasonably restrict or require a special permit, or other discretionary zoning approval for the use of land or structures for a single accessory dwelling or rental thereof, and a single family residential zoning district.
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Jake Marcus: the law also says it’s an as, or or to qualify or what properties are eligible has to be as of right, and it has to meet the following requirements, what which are the adu must be built within the existing footprint of the main main home.
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Jake Marcus: which means you cannot extend any part of the existing home for the sole purpose of converting it to an adu
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Jake Marcus: the primary structure must be a single family home duplex or triplex you must occupy the same home in which the adu is built, and if you intend on building a basement or 1st floor. Adu! The structure must be above the base flood elevation. If your home and is in the fema flood zone. So those are kind of the parameters that would provide the backdrop.
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Stephen Marcus: So so you have to comply with the no, you can’t. say that as a municipality you can’t say no, we’re not going to comply with that. But, Jake, you’re saying that the there are
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Stephen Marcus: certain areas where the law says
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Stephen Marcus: that a town does not have to
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Stephen Marcus: allow certain expansions on the on the property.
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Stephen Marcus: But but basically the answer is that you have to comply with the law. But that does not mean that every homeowner who comes to a town with an idea, for example, to take up every square inch of the of the lot with with ad use can do that, that they must comply with the law.
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Jake Marcus: Yeah. So so I still think, if if it was subject to an inspectional services department Review. There are still other requirements within an adu is required to have everything required for independent living, which includes full utilities, full kitchen, full bathroom, bedroom, or sleeping area, with an emergency egress at least 2 means of egress.
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Jake Marcus: ceiling, height of at least 7 feet 6 inches for a duplex or triplex.
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Jake Marcus: Home, adding an adu and 7 foot for a single family home, adding an adu.
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Jake Marcus: so I think, yeah, I mean, you’d still be subject to those requirements.
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Jake Marcus: but yeah, as far as far as I mean how I read the may not unreasonably restrict or prohibit.
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Jake Marcus: I I kind of see that as you don’t need to now apply for a special permit, or or th. There’s basically less less kind of I guess there’s way to put it hoops and ladders to jump through to get approval of these.
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Bill Finnegan: If I.
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Stephen Marcus: And we could, yeah.
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Bill Finnegan: What we. What we’ve seen is
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Bill Finnegan: for the single family
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Bill Finnegan: homeowners, for them to turn their home into a 2 family unit was, if not, if not impossible, very
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Bill Finnegan: laborious, to get through the process. This this allows them to by right have that right but it but you. Still there was one question that came up about. Excuse me, setbacks.
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Bill Finnegan: the adu laws that we that the way we understand it.
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Bill Finnegan: It, doesn’t you? You can’t if you want to
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Bill Finnegan: infringe on a setback requirement. You have to go to zoning and and planning, and you have to go through that entire process. So it doesn’t allow you to increase your your zoning lot coverage or setbacks, or any of those issues that need to be dealt with. The adu doesn’t alleviate any of that. But if you don’t have a setback issue and you don’t have a lot coverage issue by right, you’re able to add this second
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Bill Finnegan: dwelling unit on your property. And and I think that Boston, this one that you have up right now, Jake. So this is saying, it needs to be from existing space. Most of the ones that we’ve had experience with has been existing additional space, so that I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s
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Bill Finnegan: specific in Boston, if that’s that’s what you’ve seen, or if that’s mass
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Bill Finnegan: wide, I’m not sure. Yeah.
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Jake Marcus: Yeah. So so I did want to get into yeah, there there are. There’s the Boston Pilot program, as well as the Massachusetts law, which basically says.
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Jake Marcus: As far as yeah in law apartments adus are now legal in all Massachusetts single family zones.
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Jake Marcus: And and yeah, that that’s where the the new law provides that you know the the No zoning ordinance, or shall prohibit or unreasonably restrict or require a special permit. We did get a question about the cost to the unit owner.
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Jake Marcus: So as as kind of just a very generic baseline as far as what do you? What can you do to
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Jake Marcus: to kind of
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Jake Marcus: provide for some type of
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Jake Marcus: restrict or not regulation rather than I’m not gonna say, restrict or or prohibit. But how do you regulate the the inclusion of
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Jake Marcus: an adu, or the addition of an adu probably
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Jake Marcus: the most the most simple answer or the most generic advice that I could give. Obviously, we’re trying to cast a wide net. And and if you’re seeking specific legal advice. It’s important to ask counsel about the specifics of that that requirement. But as it relates to
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Jake Marcus: figuring out how to regulate adus, I would say you want to. Amend your bylaws, amend the amend. Your governing documents, and kind of add in rules and regulations, as it relates to common areas. As to who’s responsible for paying.
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Jake Marcus: And you know, if if you need a new electrical service or a new walkway as long as it’s then the footprint of the adu from my, from my understanding. If this is happening within a, if if it has to relate to the common areas that would be outside the footprint of what an adu requires.
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Jake Marcus: But if it adds on to the electrical service
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Jake Marcus: I believe if there’s a way to equitably apportion the the costs, then, yeah, that those should be the be borne by the unit owner, Steven. What do you think about that? That’s an interesting question.
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Stephen Marcus: Yeah, I think I I think the Boston pilot program is gonna be a little different, because Boston is sort of crunch for space.
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Stephen Marcus: So it’s it makes perfect sense that there are lots of areas in Boston where expanding up and out isn’t possible. But let’s say that you go to some of the areas in possibly southeast Dorchester where? Where there might be a a little more land.
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Stephen Marcus: It would seem that if there were, if you were constructing
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Stephen Marcus: an adu which requires more
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Stephen Marcus: costs because of utility service or because it’s serving more people. I think that it would be possible to allocate the cost to to the to the owner.
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Stephen Marcus: but I think to take a again to take a step back on this.
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Stephen Marcus: I’m going on the assumption that
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Stephen Marcus: in most cases
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Stephen Marcus: the current, if it’s a Condominium versus the Homeowner Association
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Stephen Marcus: or Property Owners Association or Landowners Association.
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Stephen Marcus: That in most Condominiums in Massachusetts
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Stephen Marcus: most documents would wouldn’t permit the adus, and therefore, if there were an ability of owners to amend the documents to permit them.
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Stephen Marcus: They could also say that it will be conditioned upon any increased costs being allocated to the unit owner who creates the the adu.
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Stephen Marcus: So I think I I think for most of the people on the call. If you’re dealing with managing a condominium
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Stephen Marcus: right now. If somebody said, Oh, I’m gonna build out and do an adu I think the answer in most cases is, gonna be you’re not allowed to do that. The documents don’t don’t permit it. I think over time.
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Stephen Marcus: state government, and maybe in sprawling suburbs that more thought will be given to amending documents to to permit us. Speaking of which.
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Stephen Marcus: Sheikh somebody asking that from Berkshire is asking a question
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Stephen Marcus: and particular person wants to go into a deep, deeper dive in terms of what this new law does. It sounds like the person might live or have an adu
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Stephen Marcus: in a place in the Berkshires, and the problem is that, without the adu, the ability to stay in the town would be very difficult and wants to have a take a deeper dive with you on it. So I would suggest to that person, if you
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Stephen Marcus: email Jake at the
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Stephen Marcus: alright. But is your cell phone okay, Jake?
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Jake Marcus: Go right ahead!
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Stephen Marcus: Okay? it’s property man, condominium manager. But it sounds like the circumstances are personal. Jake cell is 508-33-6416, and the person asking the question about
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Stephen Marcus: their issue in the in in the Berkshires, where they want to have the ability to have the the adu. That’s the only way of staying in in that community. Jake would be happy to speak to you at no charge and talk as long as you would like.
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Jake Marcus: Absolutely happy to. And we’ll also include, yeah, we’ll include the requirements and kind of the process that I’ve been describing. I did want to get to back to the in the. So so just to kind of lay the picture. Yeah, in in in Boston. Obviously a a kind of increased housing costs not much real estate left.
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Jake Marcus: There was Mayor Wu’s kind of pilot program which has already launched about 130 adus. And there’s there’s supposedly a hundred or so on the way.
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Jake Marcus: and yeah, I I think the biggest thing is that this is kind of a way to
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Jake Marcus: increase the efficiency and effectiveness of living. And I do want to get to. Cai Community Association Institute best practices just so, you know, a a majority of our attendees are are condo affiliated hoa, affiliated in one way or another, so as it relates to
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Jake Marcus: what Cai has stated as their best practices, Cai supports the right of community associations to determine if adu should be permitted. Cai supports legislation that recognizes the core principle of self-governance and equitable sharing of common property and the expenses necessary to operate the community association housing model.
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Jake Marcus: While simultaneously permitting, but not mandating, that affordable housing be constructed on on single family lots.
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Jake Marcus: so so yeah, the the definitely the the core principles of of kind, of allowing autonomy, self governance, while also allowing for equitable sharing, as as one of our our attendees had a question about, how do you? How do you divvy up the the cost of of common property and expenses? What we’ve been seeing a lot, some some other
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Jake Marcus: kind of similar analogies that I we’ve seen big developments in are the advent of electrical vehicles the advent of I I think, Bill, we were talking about solar panels.
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Jake Marcus: and, Bill, do you want to kind of discuss what you’ve what you’ve seen with solar panels a little bit.
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Bill Finnegan: Well, when we were discussing the requirements for for new construction, we were talking about their
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Bill Finnegan: What what
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Bill Finnegan: some requirements are, and and one of them that we’ve seen, and I assume it’s the same in Massachusetts, but certainly it is the case in Rhode Island, where you have to prewire, the home
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Bill Finnegan: for future solar panels on the roof and for electrical charging in the garage for electric vehicle, and also
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Bill Finnegan: for all of your fixtures, even if even if you’re going. If even if the owner wants gas, for example, a gas stove or a gas dryer.
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Bill Finnegan: they have to pre-wire for electric.
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Bill Finnegan: I
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Bill Finnegan: appliances. So it’s just an additional requirement that even if the homeowner doesn’t want that in their home.
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Bill Finnegan: it’s an expense that they have to incur and and meet that requirement.
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Stephen Marcus: And and I think where this all loops in is
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Stephen Marcus: again, think of us as predicting the future.
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Stephen Marcus: I, at least have been doing this long enough to know that. If Cai, national or international, has a best practice and public policy
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Stephen Marcus: about adus
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Stephen Marcus: and if my experience has been over the decades that restrictions that may start as mandates for cities and towns.
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Stephen Marcus: What happens over time is that
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Stephen Marcus: government
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Stephen Marcus: gets to the point where they start to impose or attempt to impose restrictions on private communities, such as condominiums and and homeowner associations.
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Stephen Marcus: and therefore, I think the importance of what Bill pointed out to us in our discussions about this program
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Stephen Marcus: is, it’s happened with solar panels. Massachusetts has a law basically saying that you can’t restrict solar panels. So we would say that that would only be unlimited common elements. It happened with the Telecommunications Act of 1996, with the Federal Government with satellite dishes, saying, You can’t restrict satellite dishes on an owner’s exclusive use deck
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Stephen Marcus: it’s happened with accessibility. Issues. with the Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1,988 stating that even though it’s a private agreement that the Association may have to make reasonable modifications or accommodations to people within the community. So I don’t think it’s all that far fetched
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Stephen Marcus: to envision
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Stephen Marcus: government coming up with a
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Stephen Marcus: potential law on a State or Federal level dealing with accessory dwelling units. Because of the critical shortage of of housing stock. And that’s why Cai has spent a lot of time coming up with a policy saying we understand the merits of adus.
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Stephen Marcus: But there’s a balance between the merits of adus and balancing
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Stephen Marcus: our rights to self governing our communities as the owners who bought into the communities want. So it’s a bit delicate balance. But I I think our prediction is that at some point, if we’re seeing this at a town level at some point, we may be seeing it at a condominium level pro price restriction.
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Jake Marcus: And and yeah, that’s I mean all of these developments. I mean a to use electric vehicles, solar panels birdo and energy efficiency in Boston, all huge huge issues or not huge issues, but huge developments in in the Condo world. And yeah, I think just, I mean, we do have a lot of
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Jake Marcus: community association or condo attendees. So involvement with Cai is also a a plug that we we like to give on these these webinars for the New England chapter you can reach out to or go to caine.org reach out to Claudette Carini, our our executive director, c carini@caany.org
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Jake Marcus: and happy to kind of Claudette has helped a lot with some of the recent legislation which includes electronic voting in Massachusetts as well. A shout out to Peter, Peter Westhaver, Matt Gaines and Scott Erickson for also helping out to anchor that that new development electronic voting which we have had. We we did a previous Marcus hour on electric
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Jake Marcus: voting. But but so if you want to talk about that.
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Jake Marcus: I’m happy to discuss that. But I digress
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Stephen Marcus: In in with the digression. One thing that we can do because we tend to. Least I do. To go off on tangents after tangent is
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Stephen Marcus: next week
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Stephen Marcus: you will receive anybody who registered
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Stephen Marcus: or receive
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Stephen Marcus: a copy of the Powerpoint
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Stephen Marcus: so we’ll have bills, information, and everything from the Powerpoint screens, as well as answers to the questions that were asked, either during this past hour or A couple of questions came in
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Stephen Marcus: prior to the the the seminar
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Stephen Marcus: we’ll give all registrants answers to those. And then for the person in the Berkshires ideal is that feel free to speak to Jake, and he’ll go into as much detail as possible
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Stephen Marcus: on adus. And there are, there are real life and philosophical issues in terms of such as the person from Berkshire saying it might be the only way for some people to stay in the town
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Stephen Marcus: and that’s meritorious. So there’s a bunch of information that will provide you that you’ll get next week. If we didn’t answer your questions today, I know we still have a little bit of time left.
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Jake Marcus: Oh, we still have 12 min, Stephen. You you wanna try to answer all all the questions right now.
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Stephen Marcus: I I tried to, as we were talking
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Stephen Marcus: alright.
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Stephen Marcus: I I want. I I want us to name another city and see if Bill can make a yeah.
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Stephen Marcus: a a mock up of it.
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Jake Marcus: Maybe Florida.
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Jake Marcus: So yeah, that’s a good segue actually to to Florida, maybe do like one of these. But no. So I I did want to get to the States that we practice in.
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Stephen Marcus: What what did you just do, Jake?
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Jake Marcus: Like a Florida wing.
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Stephen Marcus: The frame isn’t big enough to get the full picture. But okay.
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Jake Marcus: We’ve gone completely off the rails. So, Florida, I I did want to say, yeah. Massachusetts
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Jake Marcus: just passed this as of the what this month earlier in August.
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Stephen Marcus: Oh, the yeah. Last, I think what I think. It was the last day of July.
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Jake Marcus: Right. And and so we went over Massachusetts. No zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit unreasonably restrict or acquire a special permit. It’s an as of right. So there needs to be specific. You have to already have specific area already designated. You can’t add an addition to your property. Hoa condo town home and try to expand an adu off into the property.
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Jake Marcus: Now.
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Jake Marcus: Rhode Island.
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Jake Marcus: That’s only been a few months as well right, Bill.
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Bill Finnegan: That’s correct.
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Bill Finnegan: Well, no, no. The the new development in Rhode Island is that
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Bill Finnegan: it does not need to be a family member or the the adus were approved a couple of years ago, but the the limitation was it could only be a a family member that occupied the adu. Now, now it’s opened up to
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Bill Finnegan: non-family members and rental income opportunities.
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Jake Marcus: Okay, okay, yeah. So so similar, that makes sense. Got it.
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Jake Marcus: and and yeah, so that’s been around for a few months. Or or the new development has been around for a few months. As to single family. Now New Hampshire municipal control required by State Maine is the opposite State law allows community associations to prohibit and regulate.
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Jake Marcus: I’m not sure when that was codified
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Jake Marcus: The one that I found interesting is Florida.
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Jake Marcus: This has been statutorily
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Jake Marcus: under section 1, 6, 3, dot 3, 1, 7, 7, 1 since 2,004.
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Jake Marcus: So it’s been around for quite a while. And there’s been changes to it.
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Jake Marcus: up until the the most recent revision was 2020. I want to show you.
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Jake Marcus: So I’ve been able to read off the statute for most States. This is the statute it’s kind of. That’s the whole statute, or or all the language in the statute for Florida. It’s a full page
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Jake Marcus: of wording, so it it tries to really jam. Pack everything in there. Even the beginning of the statute reads the legislative. I mean, it’s
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Jake Marcus: I don’t know why they would even include this. The legislator finds that the median price of homes in this State has increased steadily over the last decade and at a greater rate of increase than the median income. In many urban areas the legislator finds that the cost of rental housing has also increased steadily. It goes on about that kind of information.
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Jake Marcus: yeah, I I find it to be a little bit verbose as far as just providing the background to everything that’s that’s occurred, and and and
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Jake Marcus: providing more affordability in single family in in zoned areas.
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Stephen Marcus: Sometimes shake the importance of those emergency preambles that you’re that you were reading.
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Stephen Marcus: and that’s the difference of generations. I I think, in terms of that. That one pages is too much these days for you young folks, I know all the time, you say. You say by typing lol versus laughing out loud. But the emergency preambles. Yeah, on that long one page.
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Jake Marcus: Those alarm.
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Stephen Marcus: For constitutional challenges, because if there’s an emergency related to the reason, for
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Stephen Marcus: for example, controlling rents when we had rent control in Massachusetts, impairing with existing contracts etc. Sometimes fear better if that kind of emergency language is there. I I’m just guessing as to what the Florida Legislature may have been told by the attorneys at the the Florida State House.
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Jake Marcus: Perhaps I mean, I’ll show you another graphic, the the Condo Act in Florida.
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Jake Marcus: This is the one in Florida.
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Jake Marcus: It’s about
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Jake Marcus: few is that we had to get a thing to bind it compared to Massachusetts.
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Stephen Marcus: That is a lot.
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Jake Marcus: Lot, more dense
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Jake Marcus: condo act.
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Stephen Marcus: I I think we would need.
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Stephen Marcus: yeah, I would need you and Bill to help me carry a copy of that. That looks right.
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Jake Marcus: Think that’s yeah. Throw my.
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Stephen Marcus: Well, by so many laws.
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Jake Marcus: We did get a question, though, does the owner need to re back to Massachusetts? Does the owner need to reside in the adu or the primary home.
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Jake Marcus: from what I understand.
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Jake Marcus: There are laws that require occupants to be related to the property owner.
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Jake Marcus: but the State law does not have that restriction.
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Jake Marcus: So it allows a to use on properties not occupied the owner as long as the adu only has one parking space allotted to it. That’s that’s my understanding of the of that requirement.
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Stephen Marcus: And then there was another another question, where somebody said, Well, gee! On reasonable modifications in Massachusetts such as putting a ramp so that the residents can get into a a unit down into the Massachusetts Fair Housing Law.
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Stephen Marcus: The Condominium Association is responsible for the cost. If it’s reasonable. The person asking the question said, Well, gee, I think that for adus any additional cost should be that of the unit owner not the association, and I think the answer would be that we agree.
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Stephen Marcus: but be careful if you go from adu into reasonable modifications with things such as ramps and the like. The Lyra is pretty pretty clear in Massachusetts that the Association pays the cost for the modifications to the common areas.
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Jake Marcus: Yes, and so I wanted to. Let’s spend the last few minutes just going over. So the the
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Jake Marcus: the Boston pilot program it it does, or even Massachusetts. I I believe the law will require homeowners to go through kind of a process from start to finish, which includes as a design permitting reviews and construction.
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Jake Marcus: That’s kind of where Coventry lumber and the Finecco family of lumber yards can kind of assist with this process this, this would be more for I mean, I guess if you are the the board you may want to be
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Jake Marcus: somewhat.
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Jake Marcus: I mean if you if you have, if you have rules and regulations, or if you have amended the the governing documents to allow for
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Jake Marcus: regulation of adus
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Jake Marcus: the tricky part is, if it’s happening with any unit. But anyways, this I wanted to go through the adu process as as Bill kind of sees it? So those those interested in building an adu.
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Stephen Marcus: I I thought Bill was leaving.
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Jake Marcus: Too. Yeah, no, Mike.
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Bill Finnegan: My! My, my, my! It fell! The the plug fell out of the wall. I apologize for that.
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Jake Marcus: Huh!
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Stephen Marcus: So good.
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Jake Marcus: So those those interested in building an adu on their property will, they’ll receive phonet codes for basic design packets containing elevations, basic dimensions, floor plans and basic kitchen design. Once a design is chosen for Netco will provide the customer with full prints. Engineering stamps, kitchen layouts, material. Take off in product packets, so that the selection process can begin
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Jake Marcus: and then Finetco will will put the con customer in contact with one of their preferred contractors who are familiar with this process, and and can kind of provide timelines to put this in place.
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Jake Marcus: so that’s kind of the general rundown bill. You want to add anything as to kind of the process that you’ve seen.
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Bill Finnegan: No, that that’s basically the process. And again, most of our interaction has been with either contractors doing building an adu, or primarily homeowners that didn’t have a good handle as to how to go about
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Bill Finnegan: approaching this. And we we wanted to streamline the entire process like it. We said, with these 4 basic designs, whether whether anyone actually builds one of those 4 or not or not is really it doesn’t matter to us. But if it happens to fit with what they’re looking for. It’s a very quick, easy process, and we take a lot of the unknown for
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Bill Finnegan: the the homeowners to to get to a building permit in a much quicker process than typically on a on a new home build. So we’re just trying to automate that and add some
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Bill Finnegan: value in in that process, and make it easier.
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Jake Marcus: Excellent
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Jake Marcus: and I included a couple of just couple of the design sketches that you’ll see. This looks to be a Mini house, 2 bed, Van and laundry.
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Bill Finnegan: Yeah. So that’s that’s the kitchen and bathroom, you know. That’s the detail that can be provided to to give the the unit owner a visual of what? What their kitchen and what their bathrooms are gonna look like. And you typically see that on a home build. And
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Bill Finnegan: normally, that takes time to develop what you’re looking at right now.
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Bill Finnegan: And whether or not again, whether or not that’s exactly what someone wants or not. If if it happens to fit with what they’re looking for it. The process is done, and we can. We can
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Bill Finnegan: issue drawings same day
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Bill Finnegan: if if someone needs something like that.
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Jake Marcus: So yeah, you can see, there’s kind of a lot of it’s it looks very you know. You can see that there’s a there’s a lot of detail. In these designs. So yeah, basically, I mean, as I mentioned before, you know, you wanna make sure this includes the full utilities. Full kitchen, full bathroom, bedroom, 2 means of egress. So you can kind of pack all this in to
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Jake Marcus: to this. To this area, which is.
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Jake Marcus: which is, I guess, the I guess, the goal of the adu program.
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Stephen Marcus: And and I’m assuming that
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Stephen Marcus: Panetco has
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Stephen Marcus: done these designs based on what cities and towns in in Rhode Island and the and now, Massachusetts typically would approve. But I but I assume that
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Stephen Marcus: Bill would advise somebody looking into this process of adding an adu I assume that you advise them, or the contractor to 1st go to the
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Stephen Marcus: town building inspector of any permits that are are needed just to make sure that whatever’s being done. For example, we mentioned, if there were problems with setback and all that that the you can’t just build anything on the property. There’s still certain guidelines that the city of town might might have some say in. But now the city of town has less, say in terms of they can’t just deny an adu.
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Bill Finnegan: Yeah, our our involvement is not to
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Bill Finnegan: circumvent any local authority as to what restrictions they may have in place. Our understanding is the this. All this new law just allows homeowners
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Bill Finnegan: to add an an additional dwelling unit on their property. But you know the electrical requirements and the and in in Rhode Island we have a lot of septic systems that has to be taken into consideration, certainly setbacks. And and if there’s restrictions of the aesthetics of the build of of an addition in a certain development that has to be met with. So yeah, there’s a
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Bill Finnegan: we’re trying to take it from when you know that you can build one
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Bill Finnegan: and streamline that process. But everything you just talked about Steven absolutely has to be considered and looked into and qualified, and
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Bill Finnegan: nothing that we’re doing
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Bill Finnegan: supersedes or or eliminates that need.
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Stephen Marcus: Excellent.
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Stephen Marcus: Jake. You want to wrap it up. But again we’ll send everybody the Powerpoint.
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Stephen Marcus: Jake, you’re saving the chat for the
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Stephen Marcus: for answering the questions and answers. Oh, the questions will provide answers and you should re registrants should receive that
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Stephen Marcus: sometime next week.
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Stephen Marcus: and if you have any. if you have any topics for future
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Stephen Marcus: webinars this one was a a little different than others that we’ve done, and that it’s sort of futuristic. Yeah, in terms of something that has just passed as a requirement for cities and towns. And our prediction is at some point will become an issue that condominium Associations and Homeowners Associations
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Stephen Marcus: may have to deal with as well. But if you have any issues that you’d like to have as a topic of future monthly webinars. Please let us know.
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Jake Marcus: Yup, so feel free to send over any feedback, any questions, any further insight. And this is our, this is our contact information and Bill Bill Finnegan, and his team, Ryan Finnegan, and Dan Lacroix Bill. We appreciate the time we appreciate your help in putting together, this presentation would have been lost trying to figure it out myself. So I really appreciate it and appreciate the help.
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Bill Finnegan: Thanks for involving us. We appreciate it.
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Jake Marcus: Absolutely
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Jake Marcus: alright. Everyone have a good rest of your day and remainder of the week, and and, Bill, I’ll see you in Saratoga.
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Bill Finnegan: Yes, you will. Thanks very much. Thanks, Steven.
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Stephen Marcus: Thank you, Bill.
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Stephen Marcus: Yeah. We saw.
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Stephen Marcus: yeah, we still have a bunch of people in the in the room.
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Bill Finnegan: Okay.
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Bill Finnegan: so you just we just gonna disconnect, are we all set guys? Yeah.
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Jake Marcus: I can just end it. Yeah.
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Stephen Marcus: Yeah, unless Jake wants to.
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Stephen Marcus: Restarted to to go over anything privately, or are we all set.