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Sean Tiernan: So good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us. If you don’t know me. My name’s Sean Tiernan. I’m an attorney here at all, talking, Marcus. I specialize in condo a lot and then also conveyances.
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Sean Tiernan: You don’t know. Command is all that’s really. When you buy or sell a house
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Sean Tiernan: get a loan bank representation seller representation by representation.
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Sean Tiernan: And then we have Lisa Westman still. She works at Wfg. National Title Insurance Company. If you don’t know what that is. When you buy a house, see that thing, title, insurance you like. What the hell is that she works for that company? Basically.
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Sean Tiernan: when things get complicated I reach out to her and say, Please help me.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: No, but I at practice
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Lisa Vesperman Still: which is title insurance, and if anybody ever says to you that title insurance is not necessary, or you don’t need it. Don’t listen to them. But we could have a whole other hour discussion about that one. We won’t get into that problem
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Sean Tiernan: right? Exactly, cause we have some more exciting things to talk to you guys about today. Yes, yeah, it’s pretty low by. But yeah, it’s definitely more exciting than the topics of title insurance.
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Sean Tiernan: Just the overview we’ll be talking about for the next hour. We have the expanded fincent geographic targeting order the fin. Send corporate transparency act out applies to condos. And then, the big topic is the real estate broker commissions this class action lawsuits against realtors and brokers, and their groups. So we’ll dive into all those so stuff. That first subject.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: I should say at this point. It’s probably a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. I hate to say it like that, but it’s coming up a lot. So everybody asked, What is Fin? So Fin was, it’s a it’s a bureau of the Us. Treasury created in 1990.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: As the slide says it was
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Lisa Vesperman Still: mission is to, and I’ll read it just for the sake of get it. Safeguard the financial system from a Liveset use and combat money, laundering and promote national security through the collection, analysis, and dissemination of financial intelligence, strategic use of financial authorities. But what does it? What does that really mean?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: What it means is that they’re collecting information that they are then going to share with law enforcement officials. The whole idea is that they’re trying. They’re trying to catch the bad guys.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: but they themselves are not trying to catch them. They’re gonna share the information that they get with law enforcement agencies. So they’re really a financial intelligence unit for the United States. They’re actually part of the Egmont group, which is an international group
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Lisa Vesperman Still: of FI use that share information and cooperate with each other. To request information, disseminate information, disclose financial information. It’s not like they’re, you know, disclosing the information of the normal everyday
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Joe Blow, but they are really looking for
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Lisa Vesperman Still: looking to stop money laundering. And yes, we are recording this, if you haven’t. So I’m sure that Shawn’s office can share this with you guys later on. So really, what they’re doing is they’re following the money, you know, like Jerry Maguire, show me the money. They’re really looking to follow that trail, you know. Let’s find out who’s dropping the Tvs out of the back of the truck in the middle of the night. I know that sounds kind of
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Lisa Vesperman Still: mundane, or, you know, back in the day, the mob, but they’re they’re looking for that information, whether it’s
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Lisa Vesperman Still: to stop terrorism to stop drug cartels or just to find the bad guys.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Shawn, have you had to do any reporting under the Dto’s yet? And we’ll get to the Dto new order yet.
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Sean Tiernan: I can’t call Sam and do one, but the sales price wasn’t high enough, which I know is kind of shocking with house prices the way they are. But yeah, it is really, it’s pretty. Yeah, most mine. When I file. It’s really just that.
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Sean Tiernan: you know. Small Time House flipper who just flips couple of houses a year. Just I’ll see. You know there’s obviously nothing shady about that.
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Sean Tiernan: you know. That’s not really who they’re looking for, but you know
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Sean Tiernan: it kind, you know it honestly encompasses those, you know. Small time probably heard the expression.
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Sean Tiernan: One door, one lc, you know, one door, one entity. So they just phone to Lc, they bought the property in that flip it? Yeah. So even though that Lc is probably only up for a year, maybe year and a half, you know, if they have need some extra time selling the house once it’s flipped.
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Sean Tiernan: you know. They’re kind of encompassed in that. You know that targeting order just cause just someone told they had. Hey, just form an Lc. If you flip in a house which is good advice. But
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Lisa Vesperman Still: but if there’s a there’s another level to that, if you’re if you’re forming an Lc, you know, and this is where we wanna let you all know anybody who’s listening that does that sort of work you’re going to have. And this is where Fin becomes important to you because of these orders that we’re going to get to on the next slide. There is another level of reporting that you need to be aware of. Besides, the
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know, filing with the Secretary of State every year to keep your Llc. Updated in in good standing, you know, and paying your 500 or $525. There’s no fine. There’s no financial reporting here with the fin, but it’s
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you’re sharing information that you wouldn’t normally think that you’re gonna share, especially if you are a member of an Lc, let’s go to the next slide, Shawn, and see, and we’ll share with them what we’re gonna what they need to share
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Sean Tiernan: little, don’t.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So on these Dtos. you know. Basically the the Under the Bank Secrecy Act.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: title 3 of the Us. Patriot act of 2,001. If anybody’s really interested, the Secretary of Treasury can issue regulations that require
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Lisa Vesperman Still: banks and other types of financial institutions like title insurance companies to establish what they call amls or anti money laundering programs.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: including the filing of reports, which is where we’re getting into next that are useful, they say, in the criminal tax and regulatory investigations that they conduct, including intelligence and counter terrorism matters. So that’s where these Gtos
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Lisa Vesperman Still: come into place. So what is a Gto? Well, it’s called a geographic targeting order.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: It’s done under 31 Usc. Section 53, 26. A. Again, if anybody’s really interested in the statutory reference. And again, just like I was talking about before. It’s about generating leads for local law enforcement, collecting the information to share with the FBI the Secret Service, local you know, local police, state police, whatever it might, whatever institutions there might be.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: so that the bad guys can be caught. So it requires. Well, I should say that the first Gt. O’s. Were actually issued. interestingly enough, for armored cars.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Can you imagine
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Lisa Vesperman Still: armored cars and other common carriers of currency? They were looking for
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Lisa Vesperman Still: currency that was crossing the border between Mexico and California and Texas.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So they were looking for all of that type of information. And then other Gtos were later issued concentrating on the fashion districts in Los Angeles, of all places, you know, you’re like fashion. Well, again, we get to sort of like the Tvs falling off the back of the truck. Well, no, it’s called
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Lisa Vesperman Still: the bad guys
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Lisa Vesperman Still: the illicit
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Lisa Vesperman Still: the illicit parties. I’ll call it that way, you know, going in and saying, Okay, I want, I want to buy all those dresses off the rack. Here’s some cash.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So they’re looking for cash transactions. It’s really where it comes down to. So for real estate. The first Gtos were issued in 2016 for New York City and Miami transactions
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Lisa Vesperman Still: after there were some concerns raised, as I said, that all cash purchases were taking place.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: and by individuals that were attempting to hide their assets, make sense and identity by purchasing High End residential properties through opaque structures like Llc’s, where the members aren’t always known.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know, here in Massachusetts and most other places.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: there’s no requirement in the
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Lisa Vesperman Still: registration when you’re registering with the State to disclose who the members are, so, who the real owners are of those entities. So they found that there were some bad guys hiding behind the the this level of this Llc. So they issued these Gtos to try and find out really who the or who the true owners were.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: and then jeep’s tos got expanded and they get renewed every 6 months significantly expanded in 2,018, where Massachusetts property became involved, they would expand it to the different entities, as well as in the different States or counties that were involved with the original Gto order from Massachusetts. Issued, as I said, in 2,018.
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So what does the Dto require?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: It requires a covered business. That’s the title Insurance Company to collect and report certain information regarding business persons involved in covered transactions or certain transactions which we’ll get to in a minute.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: taking place in certain geographical locations
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Lisa Vesperman Still: in the United States, and that has to be done within 30 days following the transaction. Now there are high fines. If you don’t comply. Which is why the title insurance companies actually put the burden back on their agents, because they’re the ones that know the agents are the ones that know the intric intricacies of the transaction. So that means that in Sean’s case.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: as we were talking about a little before Sean’s office, is responsible for reporting that transaction.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know there’s a way to do it, and we’ll get to that in another slide or 2. But you know, for all intents and purposes.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: The title Insurance Agents are an arm of the title Insurance Company, and that is why they are then the responsible party, or also covered under that covered business.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Definition!
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Lisa Vesperman Still: The current order actually went even further and expanded to additional counties here in Massachusetts, in that order started October 20Â s, and goes through April eighteenth, 2024.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know. And and
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Lisa Vesperman Still: when they first came out, really, we would go. Well, I wonder if they’re gonna go away at the end of the 6 months. No, they’re just gonna continue to expand. I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually
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Lisa Vesperman Still: they will cover most every State and major city in the United States cause. The the first Gto actually here in Massachusetts
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Lisa Vesperman Still: was confidential. We were restricted from even telling our agents what it said, and why the information was being collected.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: It just said all we were. All we were able to do was, Tell our agents we need this information.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: This is what you need to provide to us. You need to give it to us within 30 days. Why. we can’t tell you so. Think of how difficult that is, when you’re representing a buyer in a transaction
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Lisa Vesperman Still: saying, Okay, well, I need all of this information from you. I need a copy of your driver’s license and buyer, because usually it’s you’re looking for that information from the seller. right? Because you’re wanting to make sure that it is the person who’s selling the property.
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Now you’re looking for the information from the buyer.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Oh, yes, I need your driver’s license. I need your social security number, and I need I need your address. Oh, yeah. And I also need, if you have more than a 25% ownership interest in this Llc through anybody that does. Oh, yeah, I need their information, too. But I’m a member. I don’t need to disclose my information to anybody.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Yes, yes, you do. You need to now disclose it to Vincent was difficult for agents to explain that without knowing why.
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Sean Tiernan: kind of purpose to being a member, not a manager. So no one knows about it. Yeah, my default, whenever you know this something that seems silly to do, I just blend the bank, just blend the bank.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Well, what do we? What we were talking about when we were preparing for this webinar, we were talking about closings. And what did we say? Most of the forms, you know. Yep, there’s the note, the mortgage, the CD
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Lisa Vesperman Still: and everything else is. Oh, yeah. Well, it’s there, you know. Yes, I’ll explain to you, obviously, but it’s there because somebody got sued for something. and the bank is making me do it. The bank is making me sign this right?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So for current cover transactions. So what’s a current transaction we went over who a current?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: who the covered party is, but who’s the covered transaction?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So it has to meet all of these requirements, so it has to be a purchase of a residential property, one to 4 family
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that includes co-ops, condos, and it has to be located in a cover geographic area. We’ll show you a slide on that in just a second.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: It has to be a purchase price of $300,000 or more you say, wow! That’s not really a high level, as Shawn was saying before you know, yeah, you you can have some under that amount, some condos go for that. But what’s really happening is they’re trying to collect that
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Lisa Vesperman Still: that really important information purchase made without a bank loan by a financial institution. Now, what this means is a bank that is required to have
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Lisa Vesperman Still: am l, or anti anti money laundering of
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Lisa Vesperman Still: process in place, so
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Lisa Vesperman Still: does a bank loan by a financial institution. Does that include a hard money lender? No, it doesn’t.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So a lot of that. Most of the transactions, when you have a hard money lender are gonna have to be reported, especially if it’s not 100% financing. And
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Lisa Vesperman Still: the purchase is
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Lisa Vesperman Still: using or being paid with cash cash years, check certified check travelers, check personal check business, check money, order funds, transfer or virtual currency. Not that that’s not happening a lot a lot anymore. But if you’ve completed the sale between October 20, s and 2023, up through April eighteenth, 2024, you have to report.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: and the reporting requirement is for is only if the purchaser is a legal business entity, so doesn’t apply. If you’re an individual, purchasing doesn’t apply. If you’re a trust or trustee of a trust doesn’t apply. In fact, 1031 entities. You know, the entities are formed by a 1031 company in order to purchase a property and a 1031 exchange are also exempt.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So if you’re an Llc. A corporation or a partnership.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: most times you’re going to have to report.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So
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Lisa Vesperman Still: let’s just show them Shawn where the covered transactions are.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: You have to be for Massachusetts, and we’ve got all the different geographic areas here, just in case anybody is interested. But for Massachusetts, Suffolk, Middlesex, Bristol, Essex, Norfolk, and Plymouth. So the starred ones are ones that were just added in this current. Gto.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: But think of it! You’re looking at the entire eastern part of Massachusetts. Except for the Cape
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket. Why?
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Well, the reason that these are chosen. And this is what’s really interesting is that in the sharing of information between the law enforcement and Fin. Vincent has found that there is, has been a ramp up of
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Lisa Vesperman Still: forgery. Illicit activity!
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Stellar fraud in these counties! So that’s why they have now added these counties to the to the current geographic areas. So it’s it’s really kind of interesting when you think about it, that you know, we pass around to our agents all the time about how important it is
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Lisa Vesperman Still: to make sure that they identify who the seller is, and and the the amount of seller, fraud, and vacant land fraud that has been happening over the last year, so has really really increased.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: And I can really see now why these counties were actually added to the order.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So I already sort of went through the type of information that needs to be reported.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you’re looking at.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: The identity of the agent, the title agent. The person who’s submitting the form information regarding the transaction purchase price address, whether it’s a residential commercial transaction, remember, just because it’s one to 4 family. Residential property doesn’t mean that it is actually going to be lived in by that person. So it’s really meant for investment property.
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the type of entity that’s purchasing type of funds that were used information about who’s signing the docs on behalf of the entity. So if we’re talking about an Llc we’re talking about the manager. If we’re talking about a corporation, we’re talking about the President or vice president, or even treasurer of that corporation
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Lisa Vesperman Still: identity of the purchasing entity. And then, as I mentioned earlier information regarding a beneficial owner who owns a 25% or more interest in the entity, I know a lot of members in an Llc. That are not going to be happy about this. But
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Lisa Vesperman Still: As I said earlier, the fines are hefty if you don’t comply with it. So
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Lisa Vesperman Still: make sure you give that information to Shawn, or whoever’s representing you, because he has to then send in this form. They can either as a reporting agent. You can either send in this form to your title Insurance Company, or and the title Insurance Company takes care of it, or you can get a fin. Send login, and you can report it yourself. I understand, though, that is
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Lisa Vesperman Still: it’s a pretty onerous task, because the form, the online form is not great, so
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Lisa Vesperman Still: send it into your title Insurance Company, Shawn. Send it into your title Insurance Company
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Sean Tiernan: in existence, obviously, is is
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Sean Tiernan: the other man members. This pro, probably as a posh part, might not be privy to. But you know, if we’re issuing
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Sean Tiernan: title insurance, you know, guaranteed title. Typically this, some sort of resolution signed by members, you know, of. Lc, anyways. But you know now we are sharing with it a third party.
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Sean Tiernan: Just what happens to be a third party is the Federal government
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Sean Tiernan: no big deal. But
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Lisa Vesperman Still: yeah. So we you know, it’s it’s the additional step. But it’s really nothing, nothing, too, major or not. It’s a it’s not that bad. It’s not that bad, I think. In the beginning, when they first came out it was just more of matter of explaining to your client why you needed information from somebody that may not even be at the closing table. Because those members are right. So it’s, you know, and you know. You know.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: closing on the transaction without this information, and then relying on people to give it to you afterwards. Not such a good idea, because oftentimes they won’t give it to you. But you know the Gto is really only the first part
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Lisa Vesperman Still: of this Am. L. Structure that was then, you know, passed on to really the general public, or
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Lisa Vesperman Still: through our through the agents at least. But now we have the Corporate Transparency act, which is a little more con. I won’t say controversial, but a little more. I think it’s more onerous, Shawn, you wanna talk about that a bit.
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Sean Tiernan: Yeah, definitely. So you know, we already kind of described what since then is this is another act. That was an act by Congress back in 2021. You know.
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Sean Tiernan: just because laws are enacted doesn’t mean they take, you know, take effect right away. So you see, the effective date is January first 2,024, which is coming up soon
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Sean Tiernan: and just like, you know, the Tiring or the Doto. We just talked about this to just kind of combat. Anti, you know the money laundering, you know, because, you know, real estate is a pretty popular way to, you know. Unfortunately, launder money.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, like, like we said, you can form Lc, buy property and
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Sean Tiernan: transfer it over and boom. You know you kind of have some kind of clean money there. So And so, you know, like Lisa mentioned, you know, it’s really to deter, you know.
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Sean Tiernan: terrorism, which I know seems kind of scary. But you know a lot of our dealings out some small time flippers money laundering, you know any sort of other type of criminal activity.
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Sean Tiernan: Alright, so we see, you know the same people that this will apply to. You know who has a report. You know the brief ones are, you know, reporting company comp company applicant, you know, who’s filing and
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Sean Tiernan: or beneficial owner. So we’ll go into those a little bit more detail in the next slide.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: And they’re all just they’re all defined under the app. So you know it. gonna talk about definitions. And and this one for a reporting company. Very interesting. Yes. So this is where
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Sean Tiernan: you know, really, where we think the economy associates associations in Massachusetts kind of come into play so as you see, on the side, you know, reporting companies, any sort of entity
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Sean Tiernan: that files a document to set the Secretary of State. So you know, Secretary of state is. That’s when you, you know, incorporate or register.
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Sean Tiernan: You know. Lc. Or corporation, you know you give certain information over to them. File.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, if you have our cause. Organization, you can follow those.
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Sean Tiernan: And then you can see in Bold there, or any similar office under this, under the law of the State. which the entity is form. So, as you know, Massachusetts, unlike a lot of the other States we have.
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Sean Tiernan: you know the hoas. Well, they’re not really joys. The Condominium associations have a declaration of trust. If you’re in a condominium, so you have the master deed, and then you have the con the declaration of trust.
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Sean Tiernan: and then you file that the registry deals, and then you continue to register. You know, as trustees change from time to time.
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Sean Tiernan: you know. You go ahead and you follow those trustee certificates. So you know, every State has a Secretary of State, and they have an office.
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Sean Tiernan: So by adding those just those few words on there or any similar office, you know, we interpret that to be careful, and we think you know, we believe that now kind of minimum associations
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Sean Tiernan: and mass usually have a obligation to go ahead and file these reports.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: So one of the and just to add to this, you know II had a discussion
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Lisa Vesperman Still: sort of with Shawn earlier when we were talking about this after Ed Alcock had come out with an article saying that, oh, that yes, this applies to condo associations, and I said, Well, I might disagree, but I’m also of the ilk that when it comes to finance is like the irs you don’t want to screw around with them.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you wanna be you? Wanna especially with the fines as heavy as they are.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you wanna be conservative. At least I do from it’s hey? I work for a title insurance company. I’m all about risk. Let’s eliminate the risk by being conservative. So you know, I’m offer over reporting and then being told later on. No, you didn’t have to report, especially since the type of information that we’re looking for or they’re looking for is really the same type that was found on the Gto. But anyway.
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Sean Tiernan: no. And and you know we we don’t think it was intended to encompass condominiums.
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Sean Tiernan: But you know there there is an exempt list of certain entities that are exempt, and unfortunately, condominiums aren’t explicitly on there.
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Sean Tiernan: So by default.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, just to be safe, you know we do think as of right now what we know as of right now we are under, you know. Condominiums are included in it. You know, they might.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, once they start getting these, you know, multiple condos, you know, registering them up and say, Okay, let’s fix. This is not what we meant, but as of right now.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, just by the the letter of the law itself.
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Sean Tiernan: You know. Better, safe and sorry. You know, it’s not a major ask or work to do so. Just a simple file. I can
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Sean Tiernan: save a whole bunch of trouble down the road. which you know it’s better to. you know, project yourself rather than
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Lisa Vesperman Still: have to defend yourself definitely. Right? Yes.
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Sean Tiernan: So then, you know, we have that other people who need to report the company app can see from the slide here. Pretty much. It’s anyone for that entity, you know, who exercises control of the filing of the application to you know
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Sean Tiernan: the Decoration Decoration Trust itself. Or you know those updated trust certificates of who is, you know, basically running or in control.
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Sean Tiernan: so as you can see, that applies to, you know reporting companies that applies, you know, starting of that January first date of 2,024, which is coming up soon.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: yeah, when it comes to Llc’s, too. You know we’re often asked as a as a practitioner I was often asked to, you know, form an Llc. On behalf of my client, you know. Oh, Lisa, my tax professional has advised that I, you know, set up an Llc. To take title to this
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Lisa Vesperman Still: to this vacation rental that I have down on the Cape.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Can you form the Llc. For me? Sure not a problem. Well, by doing that, I am a company applicant.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Now that means that my information also has to be reported just the one time. So once, you know. Not for anything that’s reported prior to January, you know, created prior to January first. But anything January first, 2024 after. If you are forming it.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: if you are filing it for your for your client, or you’re filing it for a buyer or property you are gonna need to report your information as well.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: That was the one that I didn’t like.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: No, that’s not? Oh, I’m like, no.
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Sean Tiernan: But then also the one
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Sean Tiernan: it’s signing down the bottom you still, it still has to be signed. But you know, signed yeah via the keyboard. But who’s whether it’s a president or a manager or
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Sean Tiernan: you know the signatory for the Sector State case? So whether it depends on the person actually just typing the info in
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Sean Tiernan: and the contact info. For you know the Secretary of State Workers have questions
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Lisa Vesperman Still: or we’ll just sign the Confirmation? Or who’s the Confirmation gets sent to, or whether it’s that person who technically signs at the bottom?
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Sean Tiernan: so you know, there’s a little confusing. I mean, some people put, you know, their attorneys, as the
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Sean Tiernan: you know, for Secretary of State filings.
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Sean Tiernan: so yeah, yeah, I mean, just like any law or any regulation.
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Sean Tiernan: There’s a grey area. But I mean, that’s, you know, if it wasn’t for gray areas we always wouldn’t exist, and the world would be a happier place
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Lisa Vesperman Still: if there wasn’t a question about things.
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Sean Tiernan: Now this is.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, I think, Llcs. It’s pretty, you know, corporations, it’s clear, you know, who the beneficial owners are right. You know you have the stock holders. So you’re the members. But you know, if you belong in Condo or you’re on the trusty board. You know
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Sean Tiernan: all throughout the documents is talking about. You know the beneficial interest right? That’s you know. How do you dictate who owns the portion of the you know the common areas and everything. So you see beneficial on it. Here is, you know.
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Sean Tiernan: as we mentioned before, any direct indirect size over the, you know, there’s that where it’s substantial control that’s the always come in.
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Sean Tiernan: That’s one of those terms over the you know the company itself. And then also anyone who owns at least 25 of the ownership interest.
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Sean Tiernan: Now for the big condos, you know, it’s probably not gonna come in that 25, you know, for each owner.
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Sean Tiernan: But if you have those 2, 3, 4 families.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: it’s actually it’s pretty much going to be every single owner. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, all depending upon that. And this is where it becomes important to look at and say, Okay, what is your percentage of beneficial ownership in your condominium.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: It’s gonna be more than 25%.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: You will be recorded.
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Sean Tiernan: Yeah. And you know, if you’re not sure if this is gonna apply to your kind of association or anything like that. Just use an email. What? But website, we have emails for the Times, you can email, say, Hey, just apply to me. And you know someone can reach out to you and just kind of talk to about that real quick. So you know, II understand. You know, Federal government
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Sean Tiernan: Vince. And you know Department. you know, Doj and
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Sean Tiernan: Irs can be all kind of scary terms. So yeah, if yeah, Simon get worried. You have any questions, you know, just just kind of reach out. And we kind of explain to you a little bit more detail. And also, if anyone has questions throughout this little, the webinar
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Sean Tiernan: feel free to type in the chat, we’ll try to get to them at the end.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: Yeah, we have one question. And II told our the participants that we will answer towards the end. So we’re good to go until until then.
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Sean Tiernan: Alright.
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Sean Tiernan: And yeah, just like the with the Gto. The least was talking about. You know what information kind of has to report. And it’s basically, you know, it’s just kind of putting.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, some, not responsibility, but you know, some a face to
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Sean Tiernan: you know the people who I control on these entities.
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Sean Tiernan: Yeah, I mean, it kind of makes sense. When you have a lot of the big condes you.
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Sean Tiernan: you know. You see the amount of fees that are coming in, you know amount of stuff going out so you know, that could be millions of dollars, you know. Just kind of going through one entity. So
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Sean Tiernan: you know, small ones. Yeah, probably not. But
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Sean Tiernan: you know, bigger ones. You could definitely see the possibility of, you know.
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Sean Tiernan: a lot of money going in a lot of money going out so you know, it’s not unreasonable or impossible, or fathom. Why, you know
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Sean Tiernan: the Federal agency, looking at money exchanging hands. you know, regardless of what the reason is you might want to look. Take a look at you know, really, what’s you know who’s controlling this as some of the bigger entities right?
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Sean Tiernan: And you know, it’s basically the same thing over here with, you know, the beneficial owner report.
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Sean Tiernan: You know, it’s gonna be where you live, identify. Make sure you’re a real person. right? You know. That’s why you have those. But you know whether it’s passport or
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Sean Tiernan: you know, drive his license for the you know, birthday. But basically, you know, it’s they’re gonna just make sure you line up in the system they already have.
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Sean Tiernan: So you know, it’s really nothing that crazy that they’re asking for out of the ordinary. Basically, you know, there’s money involved. They want to know who’s touching it, who’s controlling it.
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Sean Tiernan: You know, like I said, you know, for real estate. you know. It’s it’s easy for money to exchange hands, and
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Sean Tiernan: you know, kind of not know exactly everything that’s happening. So
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Lisa Vesperman Still: oh, and the timelines
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Sean Tiernan: beneficial interest.
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Sean Tiernan: And then you know how often this stuff has to be updated. I mean, as you know, condos. you file the trusty certificates. You know what in when you do that.
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Sean Tiernan: just like most answers, we find a lot. What are the kind of docs. Say, you know, that’s gonna be the 1 one year, 2 years, 3 years. Sometimes it’s just a portion of the board. Sometimes it’s the whole board if you have the staggering terms.
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Sean Tiernan: So you see here Dates, you know, if this information changes. you know that first date, obviously January 20. Fourth, you know we want to get. You want to get those things file by
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Sean Tiernan: around or around, you know. January first, 20 joint 4. But you know, information changes. Who’s controlling? Who’s filing documents? You know. And it’s not just trustees. But you know, you also have the property management companies. Who are.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know you have authorization to sign.
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Sean Tiernan: You know the 60 certificates. So you know there is. And that document gets filed with
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Sean Tiernan: the same you know, government office the registry deed. So
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Sean Tiernan: yeah, that’s part of it as well. So anytime, you know, information is changed. You. So you do another simple reporting kind of following up
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Lisa Vesperman Still: right. And one of the things that just changed actually is that for those those entities that are formed after January 1, 2024, they originally only had 30 days
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Lisa Vesperman Still: to file.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: filed their voi. But just a couple just a few days ago, about a week ago, the final rule came down from Fin that is, giving them actually 90 days. And I think part of this actually is because Vincent
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Lisa Vesperman Still: hadn’t really come out with the forms yet
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Lisa Vesperman Still: hadn’t come out with really what the process was, you know, like they make the role exactly. They make the role. But then they think, oh, wait!
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Lisa Vesperman Still: We’re making people report something. How are they supposed to do that? Reporting is online. And I think we’ve seen, you know, multiple times of government kind of websites taking, reporting your request
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Sean Tiernan: all the time the website goes down. In that event, you know, you know, specifically a flood with. you know, kind of bunch of condo ones that they really anticipate coming.
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Sean Tiernan: You know, I you know, the website could get overloaded. And then what’s gonna happen there? Probably an extension on the date but you know, always better safe and sorry. Can down the road. Just get it done. Yeah, rip off the bandage, get it done so. You don’t have to worry about it.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: And they actually for the Boi, you know the Gto. I felt like they were. You know, there’s a lack of information. You know, they came at they the geographic targeting order that gets sent to each ta. Each title Insurance company gets their own Gto. They basically say the same thing. But all the information they need is in the Gto
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Lisa Vesperman Still: when it comes to the Bois. the website for fin sen regarding those is actually really helpful.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: They have a lot of information in there for a lot of different, you know all of the different entities they have. What if there are any exemptions they have, you know, if you need to file a report exactly what you need to do, so, you know, reach out to Shawn
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Lisa Vesperman Still: reach out, you know, check out the website. It’s I was. I was actually somewhat impressed.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: That the amount of information to the general public that they had there. So check, take a look at that. If you’ve got any other questions, talk to Shawn
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Sean Tiernan: alright, and that’s onto the file topic, and probably the more fun one
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Sean Tiernan: so we have real commissions National Association of Realtors and the Department of Justin Justice.
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Sean Tiernan: and really what this is is, there has been a string of
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Sean Tiernan: class action lawsuits, one particularly here in Massachusetts, and a couple more around the country, but probably most likely definitely many more to come.
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Sean Tiernan: So basically, what what these lawsuits that we’re gonna talk about have to do with is the manner in which sellers pay
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Sean Tiernan: the selling and buyer brokers in particular. In this case, the buyer brokers. And you know, before we get into that, just
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Sean Tiernan: for this case and kind of how it works in general. We just have a little example here for you. And basically what I,
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Sean Tiernan: what happens is typically most of the time, almost all the time. What happens or happen.
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Sean Tiernan: You know, it’s kind of up in the air right now. But
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Sean Tiernan: basically the default, the way it works now is homeowner
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Sean Tiernan: high is the cell’s cell broken real estate agent. They. They agree to a commission, usually 5 or 6%, and then they post it up on Mls.
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Sean Tiernan: And on the Ml. Mls. Mls. Is just where you kind of put up listings. So so you know. Let the all the buyer brokers know. Hey?
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Sean Tiernan: Come, talk to me about this property. and
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Sean Tiernan: on that listing is a portion that is agreed to already by the seller.
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Sean Tiernan: and it’s our, you know it’s on the listing. Hey? Here’s the percentage. You, as the buyer broker who can see this listing has full access to the listing. The buyers don’t.
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Sean Tiernan: this is your portion of it. So there was no real kind, you know. Quote unquote, no real kind of
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Lisa Vesperman Still: negotiating between the seller and you know buyers broke commission was. It was just a blanket.
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Sean Tiernan: Keep all those commissions high.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, and just a note on purpose. Commissions in general. Yeah, II know if you sell a house you can kind of see, you know, seems like a staggering amount. But yeah, the do a lot of work. They do a lot of work. And you know, just like most jobs. If you don’t know what the person’s doing.
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Sean Tiernan: it’s probably because they’re doing the job right. If they did it wrong. And the problem comes arise. You know, it comes up. It’s probably because they weren’t doing the job right. Yeah, I remember when I first, you know. So I doing. Convenience is. I saw how much missions were announced. Oh, that’s a lot of money
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Sean Tiernan: that I started doing transactions where they know we’re no real estate agent. So brokers involved
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Sean Tiernan: and like I would say, nice, and the time prompts came up deals got delayed. So you know, there’s a lot of work, you know, that goes in on both side.
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Sean Tiernan: So yeah, just take, you know. Take these kind of with a bit of grain assault these case decisions. Because.
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Sean Tiernan: you know, obviously, it’s kind of the lawyers in the class action losses, you know, pushing this.
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Sean Tiernan: So
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Sean Tiernan: you know, that’s kind of my little 2 cents on the, you know, brokers commissions in general.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: there is value to the work that is done by by both the selling agent and the buyer agent. There’s a lot of work done by both of them, and they, you know, deserve to be
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Lisa Vesperman Still: compensated for what they do.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: And.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: as Shawn said, if you don’t have a real estate broker involved in a transaction, the amount of work involved, even from the attorney standpoint, is staggering. Really. So I mean, it’s the stuff that we would normally do. But, you know, calling for weather readings and arranging for the Home Inspector to go in and and arranging, for you know all of the things that need to be ordered. Is there a septic, and is, you know.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: we don’t have time to always go into Town Hall and check out everything, whereas these are things that the brokers do on a daily basis. They know the people at the town. They know that. And and all of that. As I said, that’s
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Lisa Vesperman Still: there’s a lot of value to that. And
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Lisa Vesperman Still: The compensation is is warranted.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: so you know, just
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Lisa Vesperman Still: II think we all need to be aware that. Yeah, the the way that commissions work it does. It’s like, okay, fine
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Lisa Vesperman Still: that I don’t have a problem with that. But yet.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know, we’ll see, as we talk. Talk about some of the cases, how exactly they thought that this was an inflationary. scheme wasn’t really a scheme, but inflationary antitrust things of that nature.
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Lisa Vesperman Still: you know. So
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Sean Tiernan: that’s why, you know, we’ll start with the main one, the one that really got all the headlines couple, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, we’ll start talking about it. So basically
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Sean Tiernan: class action lawsuit bunch of plaintiffs. I think you know, I forget the time. Span this one. But
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00:49:41.030 –> 00:49:48.920
Sean Tiernan: yeah, as you commissions are high, so it is a lot of money. So even it’s just 5 years. I know once about 25 years. One of the other cases
306
00:49:48.960 –> 00:49:57.350
Sean Tiernan: anyone who, you know basically sold a home in that time. Span is oh, damages!
307
00:49:57.460 –> 00:49:58.790
Sean Tiernan: And so
308
00:49:59.640 –> 00:50:11.149
Sean Tiernan: they want the trial, you know. And the jury looked at all the facts looked. You know the kind of the process for which commissions are agreed upon, how they’re listed.
309
00:50:11.250 –> 00:50:15.459
Sean Tiernan: And they came back with a over 1 billion dollar
310
00:50:15.480 –> 00:50:28.119
Lisa Vesperman Still: verdict so
311
00:50:29.610 –> 00:50:32.420
Lisa Vesperman Still: crazy the amount of money that is nuts.
312
00:50:32.910 –> 00:50:35.889
Lisa Vesperman Still: But if, when you think that, as Shawn said, it’s
313
00:50:35.910 –> 00:50:41.890
Lisa Vesperman Still: anybody who bought or sold a house. you know, within that area, so this case was in Missouri right?
314
00:50:41.900 –> 00:50:56.870
Lisa Vesperman Still: And so it’s in Missouri. It’s for all of the different agencies or brokerages that were named. I think there were 7 or 8 of them. And the National Association of Realtors. So
315
00:50:56.980 –> 00:51:04.720
Lisa Vesperman Still: think about how many people bought property in Missouri that perhaps qualified and opted in on this class action lawsuit.
316
00:51:05.180 –> 00:51:09.769
Lisa Vesperman Still: I’m sorry. I gotta take at least 7.
317
00:51:12.200 –> 00:51:15.679
Lisa Vesperman Still: Oh, my, gosh, just just absolutely crazy. Crazy.
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00:51:15.920 –> 00:51:21.840
Sean Tiernan: Yeah, it it really is. Amounts.
319
00:51:23.030 –> 00:51:26.569
Sean Tiernan: so yeah, I think you know, as we mentioned, you know, the Doj
320
00:51:26.660 –> 00:51:30.009
Sean Tiernan: is kind of getting involved in this.
321
00:51:31.070 –> 00:51:40.610
Sean Tiernan: you know, it’s kind of on different fronts once this. It kind of came out. you know, definitely grab some headlines for sure. You know, if you just type in this case, you’re gonna see.
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00:51:40.950 –> 00:51:52.099
Sean Tiernan: you know, bunch of talking heads like you see right here right now, talking about it. You know what this means, if anything. You know, I think a lot of the times. If you see that staggering
323
00:51:52.530 –> 00:51:59.780
Sean Tiernan: amount, you know, it’s on math. Just going to be a big headliner whether
324
00:52:00.380 –> 00:52:01.530
Sean Tiernan: basically
325
00:52:01.640 –> 00:52:08.090
Sean Tiernan: we see major changes, you know. That’s kind of, you know, up in the air. But right now the Doj.
326
00:52:08.110 –> 00:52:09.839
Sean Tiernan: because of this
327
00:52:10.970 –> 00:52:21.960
Sean Tiernan: this big verdict looks like they had. They had a previous probe into the practices of how it’s being handled, and they’re looking to revive that. And there’s also a couple of instances where they’re also trying to.
328
00:52:22.280 –> 00:52:25.579
Sean Tiernan: You know, they’re sticking their nose and trying to, you know, figure out
329
00:52:26.320 –> 00:52:31.040
Sean Tiernan: what they would like to see going forward especially if there’s any settlements, or anything
330
00:52:51.250 –> 00:52:53.069
Sean Tiernan: essentially a
331
00:52:53.090 –> 00:53:07.510
Sean Tiernan: additional way to negotiate or saddle so whether it’s just bolstering or no, which they honestly believe, you know, they didn’t do anything wrong. You know they were providing zealous obviously for their
332
00:53:07.670 –> 00:53:12.759
Sean Tiernan: their clients who are buying and selling homes. You know, in
333
00:53:13.430 –> 00:53:16.950
Sean Tiernan: yeah, whether any change comes from that, you know. We’ll see
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00:53:18.170 –> 00:53:19.790
Sean Tiernan: here in Massachusetts.
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00:53:19.870 –> 00:53:25.259
Sean Tiernan: you know, this is that’s where we have the no, not case. I think that’s how you say it
336
00:53:25.360 –> 00:53:30.100
Sean Tiernan: versus the Mls PIN. Then, like I said, it’s a very similar
337
00:53:30.180 –> 00:53:32.180
Sean Tiernan: lawsuit.
338
00:53:32.200 –> 00:53:43.480
Sean Tiernan: Most of these are especially the ones that are going to be coming up now and already have come out. It’s basically just kind of copy and paste template pasta.
339
00:53:43.570 –> 00:53:45.330
Sean Tiernan: Pay us a bunch of money, please.
340
00:53:45.400 –> 00:53:58.529
Sean Tiernan: And and you know, if you you could see statements from the class action lawyers, they say, you know, it’s not really about the money that’s getting awarded, but rather fixing the broken system going forward.
341
00:53:59.240 –> 00:54:03.119
Sean Tiernan: yeah, that is what it is. So this one.
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00:54:04.080 –> 00:54:12.160
Sean Tiernan: basically what you have was Mls PIN, you know, like, I said, that’s where you kind of advertise, and the same thing. And on Mls PIN.
343
00:54:12.380 –> 00:54:21.369
Sean Tiernan: I’m just saying it is. You couldn’t put. You weren’t allowed to put 0. When you listen to property as a sell broker, you weren’t allowed to put 0. You could put a dollar.
344
00:54:21.540 –> 00:54:35.720
Sean Tiernan: but you weren’t allowed to put 0. Yeah, for the amount that the buyer broker would get correct, correct, and there is a settlement. It was approved preliminary, approved by the judge in this case.
345
00:54:35.800 –> 00:54:44.990
Sean Tiernan: Yeah, it was like a period where this additional review, and also, as I mentioned, this is one of the cases where Doj is looking to get involved.
346
00:54:45.050 –> 00:54:50.070
Sean Tiernan: They asked for more time to review the settlement, you know, kind of had their 2 cents.
347
00:54:50.260 –> 00:54:54.999
Sean Tiernan: and you know, basically kind of what they said was, you know, they’re basically just tweaking.
348
00:54:55.370 –> 00:54:59.980
Sean Tiernan: You know how this functions and it’s not really fixing, you know, the heart of what they see
349
00:55:06.400 –> 00:55:25.529
Lisa Vesperman Still: that are are alleged to be happening now, continuing to happen, even though with the settlement there’s been all of these things that have been worked out between the parties, you know, eliminating the requirement that a seller has to offer compensation to the buyer broker requiring the seller to provide notice.
350
00:55:26.030 –> 00:55:32.139
Lisa Vesperman Still: seller can make an initial offer, but then the buyer broker can actually
351
00:55:32.660 –> 00:55:33.920
Lisa Vesperman Still: reject it.
352
00:55:33.960 –> 00:55:40.560
Lisa Vesperman Still: And then that opens up negotiating. So you would think that all of these things would help that process, or at least
353
00:55:40.720 –> 00:56:03.620
Lisa Vesperman Still: negate some of the negative negative aspects of this. But yet and of course there’s the money. There’s the the settlement fund. Yeah, exactly. There’s always the money, you know, being set up so that they can continue to prosecute against the remaining defendants. But you know there’s always something else.
354
00:56:03.870 –> 00:56:05.480
Lisa Vesperman Still: always something else.
355
00:56:05.700 –> 00:56:14.980
Lisa Vesperman Still: So just you know. Be wary when you see these things, because they are just, they’re still open. They’re still open and still being worked out.
356
00:56:15.780 –> 00:56:17.939
Sean Tiernan: Yeah. And I believe I believe this.
357
00:56:18.110 –> 00:56:25.149
Sean Tiernan: I hope it’s already taken effect. But I think Mls. PIN might have already changed the system of how I think now you can put 0,
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00:56:25.530 –> 00:56:40.310
Lisa Vesperman Still: I think, yeah, I think some of the different agency. You know, the ones that you know all of these Mls is Mls. PIN mls. They’re all owned. They’re they’re kind of brokerage on their broker vest investor owned realtor owned
359
00:56:40.400 –> 00:56:51.940
Lisa Vesperman Still: and the individual realtor associations like say that Cape and Islands Association of realtors, the South Shore realtors, North Shore realtors. Whoever has control over that PIN in that area
360
00:56:52.040 –> 00:56:57.899
Lisa Vesperman Still: have all kind of started to change something that would at least
361
00:56:58.420 –> 00:57:01.580
Lisa Vesperman Still: comply with either the Nar settlement
362
00:57:01.690 –> 00:57:13.430
Lisa Vesperman Still: or the not sorry, not the Narsa, the Nar ruling and or the settlement they’re starting. But because everything is still, you know, Doj is still looking for more time. Right?
363
00:57:13.960 –> 00:57:18.320
Lisa Vesperman Still: Yeah, that’s what they asked for. You know, they said, they hate that. We definitely, we
364
00:57:18.760 –> 00:57:35.210
Sean Tiernan: good start. But no, we we we want some more. We want more. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I said, this different Mls. Is, you know, you have to PIN your cape, but I think which one’s more prevalent up down by you on the Cape is that
365
00:57:35.320 –> 00:57:40.439
Sean Tiernan: mls Cape the Cape Cod. One or PIN. I know pins kind of come a little more popular down there.
366
00:57:40.660 –> 00:57:44.020
Lisa Vesperman Still: I think. And honestly, I think
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00:57:44.480 –> 00:58:04.230
Lisa Vesperman Still: MOS PIN was being used on Cape Cod for a little while. I don’t know if they still, if they still are or not, but I know you know. The last time I got on with on a Cape and Islands Association of realtors call was right after the nar suit, and that’s when they really started. Really started talking about how
368
00:58:04.270 –> 00:58:09.490
Sean Tiernan: how their interface was going to change.
369
00:58:09.540 –> 00:58:12.530
Sean Tiernan: change their ways, change how they’re doing things.
370
00:58:13.120 –> 00:58:28.320
Sean Tiernan: Unfortunately, it’s not really going to protect you from class action hostage because damage already done. Exactly. Especially when you see these kind of insane, crazy numbers. Right? Right?
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00:58:28.390 –> 00:58:33.570
Sean Tiernan: You know, the probably gonna be the next as fast as commercials do you have?
372
00:58:33.930 –> 00:58:38.639
Sean Tiernan: Oh, what’s the what’s the the new one? I see all the time the military Camp
373
00:58:38.800 –> 00:58:52.759
Sean Tiernan: military base
374
00:58:53.420 –> 00:59:13.240
Lisa Vesperman Still: those who are saying, you know Doj just wants more time, and and they want, you know they probably want more money, put in the settlement suit, but they still don’t feel that it establishes an elaborate enough of a protocol to change how it’s being done, so we’ll see we’ll see. What do you we think Shawn is gonna happen? What should buyers expect going forward? What do you think?
375
00:59:14.270 –> 00:59:15.590
Sean Tiernan: I mean? It’s.
376
00:59:16.700 –> 00:59:20.139
Sean Tiernan: you know, because these cases are so new, you know we don’t really have.
377
00:59:20.160 –> 00:59:28.329
Sean Tiernan: You know the Doj full involvement yet. You know, there’s still a bunch of cases going on. Do I think you’re gonna see anything?
378
00:59:28.380 –> 00:59:35.749
Sean Tiernan: Probably not. I mean, you do have the portion where you have the seller and buyers can then negotiate kind of the brokers. Fee.
379
00:59:35.770 –> 00:59:41.160
Sean Tiernan: You know if there is a little back and forth on that. So I mean it. Yeah, it’s not.
380
00:59:41.180 –> 00:59:52.810
Sean Tiernan: You could put 0 unless in the property for a Buyer Commission and then kind of negotiate it. But you know, I mean the whole purpose, you know. Good purpose of the Higher Broker Commission is
381
00:59:53.200 –> 01:00:00.079
Sean Tiernan: is that’s gonna drive traffic towards your house when you’re selling it.
382
01:00:00.530 –> 01:00:04.339
Sean Tiernan: Broca’s the human. Yeah, yeah, I’ll save a check.
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01:00:04.350 –> 01:00:12.779
Sean Tiernan: Yeah, it’s gonna be like, yeah, we’ll leave this house. And you know, there’s kind of a problem. But yeah, I don’t really see an adjustment on the system that would fix
384
01:00:13.210 –> 01:00:15.020
Lisa Vesperman Still: right human nature
385
01:00:15.070 –> 01:00:16.120
Lisa Vesperman Still: right?
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01:00:16.340 –> 01:00:21.530
Sean Tiernan: It. It may kind of is what is. But you know, I don’t really see much change right now. But
387
01:00:21.790 –> 01:00:36.690
Sean Tiernan: this is gonna be changing probably month to month people continue to talk about it, probably month to month until all these are done, especially, you know, the Spitzer Burnett was the first one to come to a full trial, you know. Next one coming up
388
01:00:37.080 –> 01:00:38.289
Sean Tiernan: is the moral
389
01:00:38.450 –> 01:00:46.209
Sean Tiernan: numbers matter, and say, now, II don’t have them right in front of me. But yeah, that New Orleans, probably the next big one to come.
390
01:00:47.200 –> 01:00:59.310
Lisa Vesperman Still: It’s crazy. I just look at all of these. It’s just it’s the amount of money that they’re talking about. And and I did. I read an article that you know Nar has to worry about, you know. Are they going to go bankrupt
391
01:00:59.780 –> 01:01:18.020
Lisa Vesperman Still: United States right now.
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01:01:18.020 –> 01:01:38.950
Lisa Vesperman Still: though the only comparison was in the process. Comparison not of. Well, we’re coming to the end of the hour already has seemed to go very quickly. But we do have some questions that we wanted to answer. So what about? So this goes back to the Gto
393
01:01:38.980 –> 01:01:51.560
Lisa Vesperman Still: What about if it is, say, a 2 or 3 condos that are under 300,000 each? But the total is over 300, so that if it’s part of one transaction.
394
01:01:51.970 –> 01:01:55.460
Lisa Vesperman Still: you know multiple properties in one transaction, then
395
01:01:55.780 –> 01:02:12.550
Lisa Vesperman Still: it it requires Gto reporting Re requires that transaction to be reported even one mortgage one recording. Well, you know, mortgage doesn’t, really. But you know, I would say.
396
01:02:12.620 –> 01:02:18.000
Lisa Vesperman Still: you know, I would look at it, even if it’s not in one instrument. If it’s in one purchase and sale agreement.
397
01:02:18.090 –> 01:02:26.160
Lisa Vesperman Still: you know. So say, you’ve got. Say, you’ve got a property, or say you’ve got 3 properties, one in Suffolk, one in Middlesex, and one in Plymouth.
398
01:02:27.790 –> 01:02:40.929
Lisa Vesperman Still: and they’re all they’re all in there. Well, you know Kate doesn’t doesn’t count, so I guess you know that? Does, you know? Beg the question, you know. Do I then enter into a separate agreement for the one on the Cape?
399
01:02:41.330 –> 01:02:56.139
Lisa Vesperman Still: Maybe allocate? The majority say, it’s faith, 900,000. Say that! Didn’t you say it was like $300,000 each? Do I allocate them? The majority? I’m not telling anybody. This is how to avoid Gto reporting.
400
01:02:56.290 –> 01:03:01.040
But say, I allocate the majority of the purchase price to the Condo on the Cape.
401
01:03:01.940 –> 01:03:14.090
Lisa Vesperman Still: so that would then make. say, $299,000 each for the property in Suffolk and the one in Middlesex. Well, then, reporting’s not required cause. It’s under the $300,000 threshold.
402
01:03:14.160 –> 01:03:19.120
Sean Tiernan: Yeah, I mean, but you know, most buyers probably aren’t gonna know about this talking order until
403
01:03:19.400 –> 01:03:40.769
Sean Tiernan: not much work.
404
01:03:40.820 –> 01:03:46.370
Sean Tiernan: Yeah.
405
01:03:46.980 –> 01:04:03.480
Lisa Vesperman Still: Yeah. So we mentioned that the 1,031 entity is exempt. Do you mean only a specific 131 entity form for, say, reverse exchange? Or are all 1,031 transactions exempt? No, not all 1031 transactions.
406
01:04:03.480 –> 01:04:19.420
Lisa Vesperman Still: If you’ve got a single purpose, entity that you’re forming in order, so that your transaction can apply, say in this question for a reverse, exchange, that entity, that part of the transaction, is exempt
407
01:04:19.610 –> 01:04:30.889
Lisa Vesperman Still: from the reporting, if not all, 1031 transactions, just those. Because, remember, you’re talking about a buyer. So you’re forming at one to do that reverse.
408
01:04:31.740 –> 01:04:49.840
Lisa Vesperman Still: If you’re doing a forward going exchange, and that Llc. Is, you know, selling and then buying. You know within that within that exchange period that buying entity, if it’s an Llc. And the transaction is over 300,000, then yes, if it if it is a covered transaction.
409
01:04:50.160 –> 01:04:54.479
Sean Tiernan: Yeah, I think it’s kind of good reason for that. If you’re doing the 1031, you kinda
410
01:04:55.300 –> 01:05:07.480
Sean Tiernan: more deeply involved with the Irs because you are applying, you’re already applying right, for you know that kind of safe harbor exclusion for the taxes. So you’re already kind of providing that info. So it makes sense.
411
01:05:07.480 –> 01:05:32.280
Lisa Vesperman Still: Another question, where can one get the forms to file and where to file them. I’m assuming, since we’re but at the time of the hour that this question was asked, you’re talking about the Boi report, I would go to the website, just go to finsend.com, and or I think it’s dot org. I’m honestly not sure
412
01:05:32.280 –> 01:05:32.940
Sean Tiernan: now
413
01:05:32.940 –> 01:05:42.569
Sean Tiernan: it could be a Daca. That’s right. Us, or anything like that. But
414
01:05:42.570 –> 01:06:11.929
Lisa Vesperman Still: I would go to the website or call Shawn’s office. They can help you with that general condo info, and then we can get the ball rolling on that, or slides here. And you know. Will your screens be available? You talk to Shawn’s office. I’m sure they’re they’re happy webinars. So basically a transcript, you can replay this.
415
01:06:11.930 –> 01:06:18.889
Sean Tiernan: Listen to my dumb voice all over again, or don’t want my voice, you can leave the slides and
416
01:06:18.970 –> 01:06:21.560
Sean Tiernan: using mathematics. Oh, yeah.
417
01:06:21.860 –> 01:06:35.020
Lisa Vesperman Still: so thank you. Everyone for attending. We had great attendance today. We appreciate your time. We know you guys are busy. So thanks so much. And, Shawn, this was awesome. Thank you for inviting me on to attend.
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01:06:35.040 –> 01:06:36.940
Sean Tiernan: Absolutely hope you have fun.
419
01:06:37.010 –> 01:06:39.469
Lisa Vesperman Still: was a blast.
420
01:06:39.490 –> 01:06:42.580
Sean Tiernan: Have a great day, everybody take care, everyone.
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01:06:52.060 –> 01:06:53.080
Lisa Vesperman Still: Alright.
422
01:06:55.950 –> 01:06:56.920
Excellent.
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01:06:57.870 –> 01:06:58.650
Sean Tiernan: Not far.
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01:06:59.590 –> 01:07:00.559
Lisa Vesperman Still: That was pretty good.
425
01:07:00.930 –> 01:07:03.240
Sean Tiernan: Yeah. It was like an event.
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01:07:03.350 –> 01:07:06.040
Lisa Vesperman Still: Yeah. Oh, yeah, it goes by quick, it goes by quick.
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