Join Ed Allcock, managing partner of Allcock & Marcus, for an informative webinar where he will delve into the latest developments surrounding CTA and its applicability to condominiums. Ed will also address key questions including the impact and importance of recent court decisions in Massachusetts, Virginia and Alabama. Ed will provide insight on CAI’s efforts on a national scale in 2025 and beyond!
Don’t miss this opportunity to gain valuable insights and ensure compliance with these critical updates!
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Ed Allcock: Morning. Everybody
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Ed Allcock: Gonna give it a few minutes to let people enter the webinar
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Ed Allcock: just a couple minutes. People are popping in now.
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Ed Allcock: It’s gonna give it another minute or 2 as people join the webinar.
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Ed Allcock: Just gonna give it one more minute and then we’ll get started
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Ed Allcock: just letting people into the webinar. Sometimes it gets a little jammed at the beginning.
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Ed Allcock: Alright I guess we’ll get started. My name’s Ed Alcock. I’m a partner in the law firm of
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Ed Allcock: Alcock and Marcus.
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Ed Allcock: And today’s topic is once again.
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Ed Allcock: everybody’s probably getting sick of hearing. It
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Ed Allcock: is the corporate transparency act and what you, as a manager or
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Ed Allcock: a board member of a Condominium Association
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Ed Allcock: need to do or be aware of.
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Ed Allcock: It’s crunch time.
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Ed Allcock: The deadline for the initial filing is
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Ed Allcock: less than 30 days away. It’s December 31, st and there’s a lot of confusion
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Ed Allcock: and issues flying around
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Ed Allcock: with lawsuits and and differing levels of advice. And I kind of want to sort of unpack or sort through some of that today.
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Ed Allcock: If at any point today, during the webinar. Anyone has a question
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Ed Allcock: put it in the chat. I’ll try to answer it in real time, or as I get through it or at the end.
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Ed Allcock: If anybody wants to get a copy of the recording or the slides
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Ed Allcock: simply shoot me an email at the end of the program. My email is ed@amcondolaw.com.
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Ed Allcock: and we will make that available to you.
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Ed Allcock: So I’m going to start as I feel like I must
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Ed Allcock: sort of from the beginning. And you know we’ll work our way
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Ed Allcock: towards what I think are some of the more critical
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Ed Allcock: current issues. But if we’re gonna talk about the Federal Trans Federal Corporate Transparency act
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Ed Allcock: it was an act that became effective
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Ed Allcock: in the United States that requires most corporate entities to report
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Ed Allcock: what is known as a beneficial ownership interest report. A Boi
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Ed Allcock: to the Department of Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement network, which is known as Fincen.
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Ed Allcock: The whole purpose. The whole stated purpose and goal of this law is to help fight terrorist financing, corruption.
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Ed Allcock: tax fraud, and other illicit
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Ed Allcock: money maneuvering schemes, such as money laundering.
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Ed Allcock: you know. So so the the real.
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Ed Allcock: the the what, the what the stated purpose of this law was was
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Ed Allcock: to not allow shell corporations, Llcs. Llcs. Within Llcs. To hide foreign money to hide terrorist financing, to allow for money laundering. Now.
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Ed Allcock: As I said all along as I argued in
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Ed Allcock: the United States District of Virginia Eastern District, I argued to a judge down there that condominiums are not bastions of terrorism.
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Ed Allcock: activity, or money laundering, but unfortunately,
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Ed Allcock: W. At least for the time being, we seem to be swept up in this law, because
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Ed Allcock: hoas and condominiums were not given a specific exemption from the law.
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Ed Allcock: The law has, I think, 2323
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Ed Allcock: 23 different exemptions that apply to
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Ed Allcock: all types of entities. For example, if you’re a corporation that has more than 20 employees
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Ed Allcock: and more than 5 million dollars in gross revenue
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Ed Allcock: in a particular year, then you’re exempt. The thought process is.
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Ed Allcock: you have enough disclosure of your of your business
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Ed Allcock: through banking records and tax returns.
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Ed Allcock: If you are, for example, a 5 0, 1 c. 3,
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Ed Allcock: or a 5 0, 1 c. 9, which
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Ed Allcock: in in my experience, maybe, you know, I’ve come across one or 2 community association. That’s a 5 0. 1 c. 3. It’s very rare.
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Ed Allcock: then they’re exempt. And and the reason they’re exempt is.
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Ed Allcock: if you ever looked at a 5 0, 1 c. 3. Tax return, it requires disclosure of all of the
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Ed Allcock: the the key decision makers for the entity. And and that’s what this is about. What what this law is about is disclosing who’s in charge
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Ed Allcock: of the entity so that people can’t hide behind
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Ed Allcock: shell corporations to do illicit things. So
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Ed Allcock: what does the statute say? The statute actually says.
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Ed Allcock: You know, who does this? Who does this apply to so very clear. If your entity is a corporation
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Ed Allcock: or an Llc.
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Ed Allcock: Then the act applies to you.
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Ed Allcock: Now I know very few Massachusetts
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Ed Allcock: community associations that are corporations. I I represent a few it. It seems like the hoa entity more likely tends to be an incorporated entity than an unincorporated entity.
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Ed Allcock: So so the question comes down to, well, what about unincorporated associations?
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Ed Allcock: And what about like, you know the the Massachusetts
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Ed Allcock: the Massachusetts version of an Unincorporated Association?
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Ed Allcock: Probably unlike any other community association in the country.
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Ed Allcock: Lot of times takes the form of something called a condominium trust.
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Ed Allcock: So when you look at the act.
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Ed Allcock: It says, a corporation, an Llc. Or any other entity
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Ed Allcock: created by the filing of a document with the Secretary of State, or any similar office under the law of the State.
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Ed Allcock: So you know, some people have said, well,
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Ed Allcock: you know, unincorporated associations. They they tend to get created when when a master deed is filed in Massachusetts
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Ed Allcock: Condominium Trust.
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Ed Allcock: Now, now, now that master deed is not filed at the Secretary of State’s office, right? It’s filed at the registry of Deeds
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Ed Allcock: completely different. Office.
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Ed Allcock: With respect to Condominium trusts also something that is
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Ed Allcock: created, or at least springs into existence when a master deed is recorded at the Registry of Deeds is
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Ed Allcock: the Registry of Deeds a similar office? Well, the it’s unclear
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Ed Allcock: clearly they don’t do the same things right. But
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Ed Allcock: what some of the legal scholars have said, and in fact,
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Ed Allcock: I’m involved with a lawsuit on behalf of Cai
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Ed Allcock: and a few community associations down in Virginia.
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Ed Allcock: and and our councils opined that. Well.
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Ed Allcock: it’s a similar office for the purpose of creation of an entity.
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Ed Allcock: Right? It? I mean, it doesn’t. Do. You know the Secretary of State does different things than a registry of deeds.
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Ed Allcock: But entities can be created by filing documents in either place?
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Ed Allcock: You know you know the trust instrument.
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Ed Allcock: the Unincorporated Association, the Unincorporated Association doesn’t exist
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Ed Allcock: until the master deed is filed. The Condominium Trust has no utility no purpose
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Ed Allcock: until the master deed is filed in Massachusetts and in every State in the country
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Ed Allcock: a community association or a condominium.
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Ed Allcock: a condominium is a statutory creature. It cannot exist
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Ed Allcock: until its declaration or its master deed is recorded in in a registry of deeds, or or whatever the appropriate
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Ed Allcock: jurisdiction is like. For example, in Rhode Island is called the land evidence records
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Ed Allcock: sometimes. If it’s registered land, it’s created by the filing of the document in the Land court, and and the question is, and it’s a tough question.
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Ed Allcock: is the entity?
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Ed Allcock: Is the office a similar office? And you know we’ve had some legal scholars say it is for the purpose
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Ed Allcock: of creation of an entity
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Ed Allcock: Somebody’s already asked me. The question, is another mass attorney
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Ed Allcock: in condo practice filed with United States District Court
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Ed Allcock: and District of Mass. A pleading concerning Lewis Wharf Condo.
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Ed Allcock: the court ruling was a Condo trust is exempt from Cta.
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Ed Allcock: Do you concur? And they provide the civil action number. I’m going to get to that.
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Ed Allcock: I’m going to get to that. The answer is, no, because that’s not what the court ruling was the court ruling was the Condo was the Lewis wharf. Condominium Trusts case
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Ed Allcock: was dismissed.
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Ed Allcock: There was no ruling that the Condominium Trust was exempt from Cta.
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Ed Allcock: but we’re gonna get to it.
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Ed Allcock: But I figure I’d give you a preview since somebody wanted
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Ed Allcock: somebody wanted that question answered quickly,
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Ed Allcock: so so do condominium and associations.
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Ed Allcock: and Hoa’s fit the definition, I think
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Ed Allcock: the the idea is they do. Is it a similar office? Possibly we. We understand. They can take different forms. You got corporations, unincorporated associations, trusts.
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Ed Allcock: Is it a similar office, in my view.
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Ed Allcock: until you get a decision from a court as
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Ed Allcock: mr. Doucette asked me, until you get a decision from a court saying that condominiums are exempt
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Ed Allcock: or you get it or you get a specific stipulation by the by, the United States Department of Justice
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Ed Allcock: saying, condominiums are exempt, or you get
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Ed Allcock: a legislative carve out which I know Cai National is working on, but I don’t expect it to be before December 31,
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Ed Allcock: until you get one of those 3 things.
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Ed Allcock: a court, a specific court decision that says they’re exempt.
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Ed Allcock: A
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Ed Allcock: a a decision, a a written stipulation by the United States Department of Justice, which, by the way, we’ve asked for in Virginia, and they have refused to give it to us.
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Ed Allcock: or you get a legislative fix.
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Ed Allcock: I think it’s too risky not to file the Cta. It’s too risky not to report, because you’re dealing with possible civil penalties of $10,000
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Ed Allcock: and potential imprisonment.
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Ed Allcock: and I don’t know if if you serve as a fiduciary on a board. Do you want to run the risk?
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Ed Allcock: Do you want to run? Do you want to run the risk? I mean.
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Ed Allcock: I I suppose that’s up to you. In my view. If you’re a trustee or a fiduciary.
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Ed Allcock: you should not run the risk.
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Ed Allcock: and let’s talk about what information actually has to be reported. I mean, this is not. It’s not as though
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Ed Allcock: I mean it’s not easy, but it’s also not hard. Right? So the reporting company. Let let’s say it’s a community association, a condominium.
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Ed Allcock: They have to report their legal name. Address
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Ed Allcock: jurisdiction of formation and taxpayer id number pretty easy usually. When I’ve done this for associations, that initial information is supplied to me either by the the president of the Board or
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Ed Allcock: the property manager.
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Ed Allcock: The more difficult part is is then getting the beneficial owners
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Ed Allcock: to provide their information so that we can file it now that that typically
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Ed Allcock: at least in a community association, a condo, or an Hoa is
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Ed Allcock: the the Board members, and for each board member we need their full legal name, their birth date, their residential address
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Ed Allcock: and an image of their driver’s license.
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Ed Allcock: You know, and that’s where it gets a little. A little more difficult is
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Ed Allcock: is the driver’s license, you say? Wh? What are they looking for? Images of driver’s licenses for? Or if you don’t have a driver’s license, and we’ve had this a few owners
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Ed Allcock: no longer have their driver’s license, but they’ve got a state issued id card or a farm passport.
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Ed Allcock: The the government’s looking for.
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Ed Allcock: I I believe they wanna get
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Ed Allcock: something that’s a photo. Id, because they want pictures.
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Ed Allcock: I honestly believe this is the Federal Government’s real 1st effort at collecting a facial
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Ed Allcock: recognition database. That’s my belief.
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Ed Allcock: That’s not what the stated purpose of the act is.
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Ed Allcock: But to me the inclusion of
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Ed Allcock: the driver’s license. And the photo Id is is very interesting to me, and you know it. It’s it’s 1 of those things where I think
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Ed Allcock: the filing can be difficult because somebody needs to collect.
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Ed Allcock: you know, when when you’ve got a when you’ve got 5 board members
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Ed Allcock: the filings not complete until
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Ed Allcock: all 5 board members have have provided that information.
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Ed Allcock: So we’ve already talked about, at least, in my opinion, who is responsible. And it’s
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Ed Allcock: it’s basically anyone who directly or indirectly exercises substantial control over the reporting company
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Ed Allcock: or owns or controls at least 25% of the company. So
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Ed Allcock: I I think the 25% issue is very rare when it applies to condominiums or hoas.
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Ed Allcock: Occasionally you might have somebody that owns a significant block of units
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Ed Allcock: could be a developer if it’s a association that’s in transition.
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Ed Allcock: Occasionally you have it occur in small communities.
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Ed Allcock: you know, like, communities of, you know, 4 units or 3 units.
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Ed Allcock: you get somebody that owns more than 25%. Now, in that case it’s rare that they’re not also not on the board, and therefore, directly or indirectly, exercising substantial control.
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Ed Allcock: the Vincent Faqs go a little further than that. They even say, you know, like and and I see this occasionally in Condominiums. If you have an emeritus board member, you know somebody that’s been president of the Board for 10 or 15 years and they decide to keep them on as as an emeritus.
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Ed Allcock: Vincent wants that person to report as well. Although it’s not, it’s not entirely clear to me that
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Ed Allcock: an emeritus person would directly or indirectly exercise substantial control. But their faqs suggest that they should be included in that as well.
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Ed Allcock: so we we’ve already so so obviously, the deadline is January 1, 2024 and you know there’s a lot of rush
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Ed Allcock: to get these things filed before them.
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Ed Allcock: Importantly is, if an entity
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Ed Allcock: it, you know that that there’s also a continuing obligation.
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Ed Allcock: For the filing.
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Ed Allcock: And so so this isn’t. Just let’s get this filed
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Ed Allcock: before the end of the year. It’s also whenever there’s a change in the board
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Ed Allcock: you’re supposed to file an update with
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Ed Allcock: fincen within 30 days now that shouldn’t be
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Ed Allcock: terribly controversial. Usually, whenever there’s a change in a Condominium Board
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Ed Allcock: that condominium board files and update with
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Ed Allcock: the Registry of deeds, or the
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Ed Allcock: or the appropriate office, if it’s the Secretary of State.
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Ed Allcock: Also, interestingly, if for whatever reason an owner or board member changes address.
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Ed Allcock: or if they get a new license, which again, I think kind of goes to what the government’s really after. Here
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Ed Allcock: is. They want people’s photographs, cause we all know when we update our licenses.
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Ed Allcock: At least, I think every few years, when you update your license, you have to get a new photo taken. So those are actually triggers
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Ed Allcock: updating a license, a change of address, or whenever there’s a change in the board.
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Ed Allcock: the we have 30 days to report that change to the Federal Government. So
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Ed Allcock: I think the simple answer is, or the simple question, is, you got a board of 5? 1 person resigns. On February 3rd of 2025,
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Ed Allcock: a new person joins the board.
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Ed Allcock: Then that person we need to make sure that not only is that person updated for your own records in the Registry of Deeds, but that that person has also filed a beneficial ownership report
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Ed Allcock: with Vincent.
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Ed Allcock: So I want to talk about
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Ed Allcock: some of the legislative and advocacy efforts
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Ed Allcock: that I’ve been involved in. You know, to try to
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Ed Allcock: try to get an exemption or just get this
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Ed Allcock: thing, you know, out of the hair of
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Ed Allcock: Condominiums. And and I’m not just talking about Massachusetts. I’m talking about
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Ed Allcock: all of them hoas, even even the Incorporated ones. you know, in in other parts of the country.
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Ed Allcock: and and I’ve worked with Cai, the Community Associate Community Association Institute nationally, and
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Ed Allcock: you know what what Cai has been doing since December of last year
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Ed Allcock: is is trying to get the Treasury Department
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Ed Allcock: to grant an exemption for all community associations. One of the interesting things about the legislation is, Vincent has
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Ed Allcock: the administrative power to grant an exemption, even one that’s not
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Ed Allcock: even what beyond one of the 23 exemptions
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Ed Allcock: that’s actually contained in the in the broader piece of legislation.
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Ed Allcock: And
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Ed Allcock: it’s been it was kind of interesting. Say, I sent a letter we met with Vincent. Think we met with like 12 people from Vincent, most of whom you kind of forget when you’re dealing with the Federal Government, most of whom I think we’re under the age of 23, and most of whom, during the the Zoom Meeting, spent their time
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Ed Allcock: on their on their phones, I think playing games or just seeming relatively uninterested.
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Ed Allcock: The the basic response that we got back from Finson is
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Ed Allcock: they don’t feel like they’re in any position currently
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Ed Allcock: to issue any exemptions the their focus. More is on compliance and helping people to comply.
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Ed Allcock: Although I wonder about that? I I know we were. We were doing some compliance yesterday, and the Vincent website actually crashed for a bit and and was slow, because.
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Ed Allcock: you know, there’s a lot of they. They’re getting a lot of use in the month of December. But but for the most part, right now
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Ed Allcock: we’ve been told
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Ed Allcock: they’re at least in 2024. They’re not inclined to grant an exemption. Now we’ve we’ve had some good discussions with them.
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Ed Allcock: and and they seemingly get it. They seemingly understand that these are not that that condominiums and hoas are not bastions of
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Ed Allcock: terrorism or money laundering but
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Ed Allcock: they are not inclined to grant any exemption, and even
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Ed Allcock: at least now now I I we have the ear of a few people, and they said, maybe that would be something that’s on the table in 2025.
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Ed Allcock: But even if it’s on the table in 2025, it’s beyond the initial deadline.
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Ed Allcock: And they indicated it would be a very lengthy process. It would be open to public comment.
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Ed Allcock: And and it would take it would take, I mean at a minimum. It would take 6 months from the moment they agreed to give us an exemption to the point where they would consider all relevant comments to to granting an exemption. So
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Ed Allcock: it’s something down the road. Now. The other thing that Cai has tried to do is they’ve tried to get legislators to
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Ed Allcock: delay its implementation.
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Ed Allcock: And you know, that just was not successful.
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Ed Allcock: You know, with Congress in an election year to to get that through
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Ed Allcock: the one other thing. Cai’s lobbyist has heard
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Ed Allcock: that the new Administration, the new Presidential administration, might not have as much of an interest
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Ed Allcock: in enforcing this act. But you know again that administration doesn’t begin until January 20.th
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Ed Allcock: And it’s it’s really pure speculation. At this point.
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Ed Allcock: so I want to talk about a few other things before we get to the Massachusetts case. I know everybody’s here for the Massachusetts case. But
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Ed Allcock: I wanna I wanna explain how we got there. So in March of this year
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Ed Allcock: the an Alabama Federal District Court actually declared the Cta
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Ed Allcock: To be unconstitutional in a lawsuit brought by the national small business administration.
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Ed Allcock: The interesting constitution, constitutionality argument. There was, the District Court Judge
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Ed Allcock: declared, the act to be unconstitutional as it violated the commerce clause, the argument there was simple. It is
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Ed Allcock: that regulation or requiring somebody to do something on a Federal level for engaging in a holy
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Ed Allcock: State protected activity. You know, exceeds the the United States Congress’s jurisdictional power.
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Ed Allcock: The theory was was, you’re telling somebody
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Ed Allcock: the moment that they engage in State regulated activity, creating an entity
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Ed Allcock: that they now have to do something on a Federal level. So the interesting argument.
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Ed Allcock: And and and they got a judge in Alabama to buy it. Now
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Ed Allcock: the interesting thing is because it’s in Alabama.
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Ed Allcock: The decision only applies to members of the national small business administration as of March first.st
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Ed Allcock: Now myself and a few other lawyers who are members of Cai National
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Ed Allcock: filed an amicus brief because the Federal Government appealed that decision to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals
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Ed Allcock: Where the case remains pending in May of this year
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Ed Allcock: myself and a few other members of Cai from Virginia, Florida, California. All over the country.
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Ed Allcock: Filed an amicus brief, a friend of the court brief in that. In that case
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Ed Allcock: The case was argued before the 11th circuit in.
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Ed Allcock: I want to say September, and it is. It is awaiting.
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Ed Allcock: It is a waiting decision.
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Ed Allcock: Unfortunately, in the. In the interim the United States Supreme Court
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Ed Allcock: issued a decision. That sort of tightens
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Ed Allcock: or heightens the scrutiny that is supposed to be applied for facial constitutionality attacks.
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Ed Allcock: and the 11th Circuit sent a
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Ed Allcock: missive back to the lawyers in the Alabama case, saying.
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Ed Allcock: Can you brief how this was
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Ed Allcock: done by the District Court judge. So
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Ed Allcock: the feeling among most of the constitutional scholars is
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Ed Allcock: the Alabama case is dead. On arrival we expect the decision of that case probably sometime around Christmas.
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Ed Allcock: maybe between Christmas and New Year’s.
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Ed Allcock: But yeah, even that. It’s it’s uncertain if it will be before the end of the year.
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Ed Allcock: But the the pretty much the consensus is
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Ed Allcock: that it’s likely to be sent back for further review of that
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Ed Allcock: analysis that the Supreme Court now requires. So what else have we done?
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Ed Allcock: Earlier this year in September
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Ed Allcock: Cai filed a lawsuit in
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Ed Allcock: the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, and that lawsuit specifically
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Ed Allcock: sought an exemption for all community associations regardless of form. Whether it was
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Ed Allcock: a Condominium trust, and we actually had a Massachusetts Condominium trust
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Ed Allcock: as a plaintiff. In that case. So we had. We had community associations in that case.
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Ed Allcock: specific ones. And we also had Cai as a representative of the broader scope, seeking exemptions.
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Ed Allcock: For all community associations. Again, whether it was an hoa, whether it was a condominium, whether it was a cooperative, whether it was a incorporated, unincorporated a trust.
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Ed Allcock: and and we
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Ed Allcock: We incorporated all of these arguments.
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Ed Allcock: Why did we file in Virginia? We we had talked about possibly going to Alabama we had talked about possibly going to Florida. There was a lot of talk about favorable forums.
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Ed Allcock: Ultimately we decided on Virginia for 2 reasons. A. That’s where Cai is located. And and B you know, that is, the the Eastern district is known as the rocket docket. So we expected to have.
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Ed Allcock: It’s funny when you go to this, this courthouse in Virginia.
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Ed Allcock: They have a big sign that says, you know justice delayed is justice denied.
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Ed Allcock: So we went down there and we filed. In September. We had a hearing in early October.
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Ed Allcock: I believe it was October 11th
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Ed Allcock: and it was a lengthy hearing it was.
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Ed Allcock: It was almost an hour and a half of back and forth.
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Ed Allcock: You know, fought tooth and nail by the United States Government.
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Ed Allcock: and and what Cai was seeking.
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Ed Allcock: and and the the plaintiffs. In that case, one of which was a Massachusetts Condominium Trust was a preliminary injunction. Judge, just hold this law until you can make an ultimate determination
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Ed Allcock: on the law. Unfortunately, you know the judge denied the request.
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Ed Allcock: Denied the injunction. Issued a 20 page decision.
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Ed Allcock: You know, in in order. And and it’s it’s always hard to get an injunction.
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Ed Allcock: because you’re asking the court for something specific. You’re asking him to to sort of put the brakes on the law. And ultimately the judge.
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Ed Allcock: You know he. He was not terribly enamored with some of the constitutional arguments, notwithstanding what had been done in Alabama.
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Ed Allcock: and quite frankly, he didn’t see what the irreparable harm was which is a crucial element
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Ed Allcock: in in any case, where somebody is seeking an injunction, you have to prove that that
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Ed Allcock: Not only are you right on the law, but that if the law is not, or or if a injunction is not issued that you will suffer irreparable harm, the irreparable harm
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Ed Allcock: that Cai and the associations in that case were arguing
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Ed Allcock: was that it was going to damage volunteerism. Okay? Because if there was this requirement to comply.
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Ed Allcock: That, you know, some people would resign.
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Ed Allcock: or others would be less likely
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Ed Allcock: to volunteer, and and we argued that it was contrary to an act
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Ed Allcock: issued by the Federal Government, called the Federal
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Ed Allcock: Volunteer Protection Act, which which actually lowers
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Ed Allcock: the bar, or I’m sorry, raises the bar
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Ed Allcock: on suits against volunteers of nonprofit entities.
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Ed Allcock: You know, so that individuals don’t have to fear that they’re gonna get individually sued for serving on
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Ed Allcock: on boards.
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Ed Allcock: And and it’s interesting that during the Clinton Administration that act passed.
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Ed Allcock: and and the the wording of the act is, it’s to encourage and promote volunteerism.
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Ed Allcock: Our argument was this act contradicts that act.
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Ed Allcock: Because it’s going to discourage volunteerism. It’s hard enough to get somebody to serve on a condominium board.
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Ed Allcock: Let alone require them to have to file documents
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Ed Allcock: with the Federal Government. You know, download their driver’s license and make sure that all of their other fellow board members do this, and if they don’t, they’re subject to penalties, including up to up to $10,000 in possible imprisonment. So our argument was, no community associations are going to be reparably harmed.
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Ed Allcock: And and we provided affidavits to that effect.
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Ed Allcock: We provided a a poll that we had sent out nationally, and I think, like 1,200 people replied to it, and the government said, Well, only 1,200 people replied to this poll.
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Ed Allcock: There’s there’s thousands upon thousands of community associations. I I think it was.
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Ed Allcock: You know the the reality is, people don’t really reply to polls. I mean, if if the Government wanted us to flood them with.
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Ed Allcock: you know, 50,000 affidavits we could have. But ultimately the judge said, you know, we’re not really sure about this. It’s unclear that people are really going to resign. And and is it really irreparable harm for people to actually have to
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Ed Allcock: download their license somewhere. They do this all the time. They do this. When they travel, they do it in connection with banking transactions, you know. Don’t community associations, when they take out loans or or
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Ed Allcock: or get bank accounts, don’t at least one or multiple board members have to provide personal information in order to run that. And ultimately, although it was a close call, the court denied the injunction. Now Cai has filed an appeal of that
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Ed Allcock: to the 4th circuit in November. However, it is not going to be briefed and or heard
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Ed Allcock: until until January.
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Ed Allcock: So that’s where we are with the the Federal case. That’s where we are with
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Ed Allcock: You know, that’s where we are with
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Ed Allcock: everything until Massachusetts. I’m going to get to Massachusetts in a second.
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Ed Allcock: Couple questions have come in.
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Ed Allcock: What type of recourse is there? If a trustee or trustees do not file, I assume that the question there is.
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Ed Allcock: is, what if one of your fellow trustees does not file I think
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Ed Allcock: you you need to push them to file and and quite frankly, that’s what we’ve been doing.
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Ed Allcock: You know, a lot of the management companies.
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Ed Allcock: do not want to deal with this.
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Ed Allcock: So they’ve sent this to us.
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Ed Allcock: and you know, we’ve sort of herded the cats. If you will chase people down
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Ed Allcock: and if they don’t, ultimately, if they don’t do it
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Ed Allcock: I think it’s like anything else. If if you have a trustee that’s not complying with the law.
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Ed Allcock: I don’t think they’re fit to serve as a trustee, and they should be removed and replaced.
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Ed Allcock: Because if one person’s not complying, they’re potentially subjecting
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Ed Allcock: the community and the rest of you to fines and penalties.
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Ed Allcock: Someone asked me a question. Can you hide your driver’s license number? I I don’t believe I believe the answer
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Ed Allcock: is, no
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Ed Allcock: The good thing I know in Massachusetts is.
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Ed Allcock: I wanna say, 10 or 12 years ago. We we sort of went from.
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Ed Allcock: If you remember, we all had our social security numbers on our driver’s licenses.
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Ed Allcock: That’s no longer the case. It’s like a random number assigned.
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Ed Allcock: I. I haven’t tried it. I don’t know that I’ve had any owners. Try it where they’ve sent a picture of the driver’s license with it blacked out.
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Ed Allcock: I don’t know what Fincen would say about that.
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Ed Allcock: My guess is, they would object to it, because
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Ed Allcock: if you black out the driver’s license number it would not be a photographic representation of
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Ed Allcock: your driver’s license.
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Ed Allcock: so let’s get to the question that maybe some of you are here for, and certainly Mr. Doucette asked out of the gate.
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Ed Allcock: what about the Lewis wharf case?
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Ed Allcock: So the the Lewis wharf case, a Massachusetts Condominium Trust filed suit.
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Ed Allcock: They stayed away from the constitutional issues.
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Ed Allcock: They just sought a declaration that hey? The Massachusetts Condominium trust is a different animal.
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Ed Allcock: It’s not an unincorporated association. It’s not an Incorporated association. It’s not a corporation.
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Ed Allcock: We want a declaration that this law does not apply to Condominium trusts.
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Ed Allcock: The the arguments that were made.
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Ed Allcock: Where the Registry of Deeds is not a similar office.
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Ed Allcock: And the Condominium Trust is not created by recording of a document at the Secretary of State. We’ve already been over that the Condominium Trust
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Ed Allcock: is something that is recorded ultimately at the Registry of Deeds.
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Ed Allcock: There’s a there’s some people that are arguing that
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Ed Allcock: the Condominium Trust exists before the master deed.
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Ed Allcock: I have a hard time with that argument.
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Ed Allcock: Because the condominium can only be created
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Ed Allcock: by the recording of the master deed, and, as you all know, the U. Usually the the instrument that follows the master deed
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Ed Allcock: is the Condominium Trust.
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Ed Allcock: I don’t know how a condominium trust can exist.
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Ed Allcock: and whether you can have trustees that exist until until the Condominium itself is created.
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Ed Allcock: So ultimately in this case.
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Ed Allcock: The Federal Government, the Department of Justice filed a motion to dismiss
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Ed Allcock: the case brought by Lewis Wharf. They said that that they had not
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Ed Allcock: that they had not alleged enough in their complaint to have standing.
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00:43:13.260 –> 00:43:18.049
Ed Allcock: They did not make any argument that they were threatened with enforcement.
372
00:43:18.200 –> 00:43:25.469
Ed Allcock: Unlike the Virginia case, they were not arguing that there was going to be mass resignations
373
00:43:28.041 –> 00:43:30.849
Ed Allcock: or anything of that nature. Now, interestingly.
374
00:43:31.100 –> 00:43:39.279
Ed Allcock: when Lewis Wharf brought the case, they tried to argue that they were doing this on behalf of all Condominium trusts in Massachusetts.
375
00:43:41.902 –> 00:43:44.229
Ed Allcock: On November 20 second.
376
00:43:44.330 –> 00:43:50.810
Ed Allcock: the District Court. And again there were arguments back and forth. Government said case should be dismissed.
377
00:43:50.820 –> 00:43:53.519
Ed Allcock: Condominium trust says, don’t dismiss our case.
378
00:43:54.322 –> 00:43:57.820
Ed Allcock: Ultimately the court dismissed the case.
379
00:43:59.610 –> 00:44:04.469
Ed Allcock: There was language in the decision. We’ll get to it in a second.
380
00:44:04.610 –> 00:44:14.739
Ed Allcock: That suggested the Government and the Lewis Wharf Condominium Trust agreed that they were not subject to the act.
381
00:44:15.020 –> 00:44:20.859
Ed Allcock: The problem with that is, I don’t believe that’s the case, because
382
00:44:20.940 –> 00:44:28.009
Ed Allcock: the parties would not have been arguing about whether or not their case should be dismissed if they agreed
383
00:44:28.140 –> 00:44:31.270
Ed Allcock: that Condominium trusts were entitled to an exemption
384
00:44:31.460 –> 00:44:36.610
Ed Allcock: if the Government agreed that Condominium Trusts were entitled to an exemption.
385
00:44:36.870 –> 00:44:45.700
Ed Allcock: They wouldn’t have had to file the suit, and if, after they filed the suit, they could have done something called either a stipulation or an agreement for judgment.
386
00:44:47.110 –> 00:44:51.830
Ed Allcock: One of the things we tried in Virginia is
387
00:44:51.980 –> 00:45:03.129
Ed Allcock: is, and and we even tried it in court that day, because it it seemed very clear that we were not going to get the injunction, at least as to the corporate entities.
388
00:45:03.230 –> 00:45:06.259
Ed Allcock: Is, we try and say, Well, what about a stipulation
389
00:45:06.520 –> 00:45:18.310
Ed Allcock: that this act does not apply to condominium trusts or a stipulation that it does not apply to unincorporated associations.
390
00:45:18.440 –> 00:45:25.839
Ed Allcock: and we could not get the Department of Justice to agree to it. They would not stipulate to it. They would not enter into an agreement for judgment.
391
00:45:27.440 –> 00:45:29.360
Ed Allcock: And I think the reason they won’t
392
00:45:29.540 –> 00:45:32.170
Ed Allcock: is because if they do that.
393
00:45:32.350 –> 00:45:38.969
Ed Allcock: then their whole argument for trying to capture incorporated hoas
394
00:45:39.030 –> 00:46:01.109
Ed Allcock: is weakened. It’s sort of the house of Cards argument. How can you only have incorporated hoas subject to the act and not unincorporated hoas? It seems ridiculous, and it would also provide incorporated condominiums with a path to get out of this by unincorporating. So
395
00:46:01.422 –> 00:46:09.329
Ed Allcock: there was language in the case, and I’ll get to it in a second that the the judge says it seems like the parties are in agreement.
396
00:46:10.810 –> 00:46:14.970
Ed Allcock: But the court said, but we’re not going to decide a hypothetical issue.
397
00:46:15.010 –> 00:46:27.229
Ed Allcock: The Lewis Wharf contrast has not argued that they’re going to be harmed, and you know that goes back to. When I was, I know it was boring the Virginia case the irreparable harm. There was no argument
398
00:46:27.670 –> 00:46:31.441
Ed Allcock: that Lewis wharf trustees were gonna be
399
00:46:33.460 –> 00:46:44.639
Ed Allcock: you know, resigning en masse. There was no argument in that case that that Lewis Wharf trustees were subject to enforcement or going to be enforced. And of course
400
00:46:44.720 –> 00:46:50.110
Ed Allcock: there wouldn’t be any argument that there’d be any enforcement, because it’s before
401
00:46:50.140 –> 00:46:53.370
Ed Allcock: the Enforcement period. It’s we’re we’re still in the
402
00:46:53.380 –> 00:46:56.362
Ed Allcock: in the compliance reporting period. So
403
00:46:57.560 –> 00:47:00.839
Ed Allcock: you know, the ultimately the case was dismissed.
404
00:47:00.860 –> 00:47:02.889
Ed Allcock: So think of it this way.
405
00:47:02.920 –> 00:47:09.400
Ed Allcock: Lewis Wharf brings a case we do not apply. We want an exemption does not apply.
406
00:47:09.470 –> 00:47:14.559
Ed Allcock: The ultimate decision is case dismissed. They did not get what they want.
407
00:47:14.570 –> 00:47:22.159
Ed Allcock: I I don’t understand anybody that is telling you that that it’s a different result.
408
00:47:22.660 –> 00:47:28.310
Ed Allcock: Anybody that knows anything about litigation knows. If you bring a case
409
00:47:28.380 –> 00:47:37.656
Ed Allcock: asking a court for relief and the case is dismissed, then you don’t get the relief. It’s not that complicated?
410
00:47:41.030 –> 00:47:44.159
Ed Allcock: you know. It it, you know.
411
00:47:44.450 –> 00:47:47.340
Ed Allcock: I go back to what I said at the beginning.
412
00:47:49.320 –> 00:47:54.239
Ed Allcock: absent a clear directive from a court that there is an exemption
413
00:47:54.570 –> 00:47:57.840
Ed Allcock: or a stipulation by the United States Government.
414
00:47:58.460 –> 00:48:03.260
Ed Allcock: or and I left off the 3rd thing, a legislative exemption.
415
00:48:03.670 –> 00:48:09.069
Ed Allcock: The prudent legal advice is to make sure you file your Cta
416
00:48:09.990 –> 00:48:13.229
Ed Allcock: File your beneficial ownership report. So
417
00:48:13.410 –> 00:48:16.210
Ed Allcock: I’m gonna I’m gonna walk through you a little bit.
418
00:48:16.500 –> 00:48:21.560
Ed Allcock: The Massachusetts case. Just so you can see it in black and white, and
419
00:48:21.970 –> 00:48:27.710
Ed Allcock: you know it it at the outset. It says, the plaintiff brought this suit.
420
00:48:27.920 –> 00:48:33.360
Ed Allcock: seeking to enjoin the defendants from enforcing a law against the plaintiff
421
00:48:33.570 –> 00:48:40.499
Ed Allcock: defendants, and that would be the United States Government. Jenny Ellen, you know, is the head of the Treasury
422
00:48:40.670 –> 00:48:46.560
Ed Allcock: defendants now move to dismiss, contending that the plaintiff plaintiff being Lewis Wharf.
423
00:48:46.630 –> 00:48:48.799
Ed Allcock: does not have standing to do so.
424
00:48:48.870 –> 00:48:55.190
Ed Allcock: The court agrees and allows the motion to dismiss doesn’t matter what said
425
00:48:55.220 –> 00:48:59.450
Ed Allcock: in the body of the case. We’ll talk about what’s said in the body of the case.
426
00:49:00.085 –> 00:49:02.559
Ed Allcock: What matters is the result.
427
00:49:02.750 –> 00:49:05.449
Ed Allcock: And and you know it’s it’s
428
00:49:05.730 –> 00:49:13.179
Ed Allcock: you know. I always tell people litigation is a 0 sum game. It’s no different than being in the sports arena
429
00:49:14.730 –> 00:49:19.539
Ed Allcock: you know. I I you know as a as a as a big boss. Boston sports fan.
430
00:49:19.720 –> 00:49:29.450
Ed Allcock: I always love people say, well, you know the Atlanta falcons, you know, were up 28 to 3, and led the, you know, led the football game for
431
00:49:29.881 –> 00:49:38.170
Ed Allcock: over 60 min, right? Or or they didn’t trail the football game for over 60 min, but ultimately
432
00:49:38.360 –> 00:49:39.729
Ed Allcock: the other team won
433
00:49:40.390 –> 00:49:50.939
Ed Allcock: you know the the concept that something that happened in the middle of the game, or that is stated in the decision. But it’s not. The result
434
00:49:50.990 –> 00:50:03.559
Ed Allcock: brings me back to I don’t know if we have some baseball fans on here brings me back to Dan Duquette, saying, the Red Sox spent more days, in 1st place than any other team, but if you don’t end in 1st place, it doesn’t matter.
435
00:50:05.400 –> 00:50:12.059
Ed Allcock: I have to go back to the prudent advice as a lawyer is
436
00:50:12.200 –> 00:50:15.469
Ed Allcock: is is that that you should file
437
00:50:17.600 –> 00:50:24.610
Ed Allcock: Now one of the one of the other interesting things from the decision. You’ll see the highlighted language is.
438
00:50:24.660 –> 00:50:30.649
Ed Allcock: the the judge said. Well, the plaintiff brought this suit, seeking a permanent injunction, and joining the defendants.
439
00:50:30.840 –> 00:50:36.029
Ed Allcock: and any other agency or employee acting on behalf from enforcing any provision
440
00:50:36.100 –> 00:50:42.890
Ed Allcock: of the Cta against any condominium associations or similar condominium entities.
441
00:50:43.200 –> 00:50:46.030
Ed Allcock: And then down here in the footnote
442
00:50:46.747 –> 00:50:53.719
Ed Allcock: You know, the court says that it cannot opine on any cases other than the one before it.
443
00:50:54.625 –> 00:50:58.860
Ed Allcock: And at the Court’s decision is
444
00:50:59.350 –> 00:51:04.059
Ed Allcock: limited to the particular Condominium Association involved.
445
00:51:04.200 –> 00:51:11.329
Ed Allcock: It says, different homeowner associations are formed in different ways in different counties, let alone states.
446
00:51:11.810 –> 00:51:22.039
Ed Allcock: Moreover, the plaintiff does not bring a class action. Define what a purported class would be, or allege that the requirements of a class are met.
447
00:51:22.150 –> 00:51:29.259
Ed Allcock: Basically what the court is telling everybody here is, even had Lewis Wharf won.
448
00:51:29.510 –> 00:51:34.859
Ed Allcock: this case would have applied to nobody other than Lewis wharf
449
00:51:35.020 –> 00:51:41.540
Ed Allcock: because it recognizes you have different formations in different counties, different states.
450
00:51:41.550 –> 00:51:43.969
Ed Allcock: and the court’s focus in this case
451
00:51:44.090 –> 00:51:47.409
Ed Allcock: was limited only to the association involved.
452
00:51:47.997 –> 00:52:10.230
Ed Allcock: Which was different. What we tried to do in Virginia with Cai being a national entity different than what the national small business administration, you know a trade Association did in Alabama was to try to to capture a broader class of people. What the court here says is this decision applies to Lewis Wharf
453
00:52:10.370 –> 00:52:11.919
Ed Allcock: and Lewis Wharf only.
454
00:52:14.470 –> 00:52:19.100
Ed Allcock: So when you get to the discussion of the case, you see, the court says
455
00:52:19.190 –> 00:52:26.859
Ed Allcock: plaintiff has not met its burden of showing that future enforcement of the Cta against Lewis Wharf
456
00:52:27.040 –> 00:52:35.670
Ed Allcock: is certainly impending, or there’s there’s substantial risk of harm will occur. Now.
457
00:52:37.620 –> 00:52:42.699
Ed Allcock: here is the language that some people are championing of the decision.
458
00:52:42.920 –> 00:52:49.500
Ed Allcock: It says, in fact, both parties agree, accepting the facts, and the complaint is true
459
00:52:49.770 –> 00:52:54.980
Ed Allcock: that the Cta does not apply to plaintiff.
460
00:52:55.700 –> 00:53:01.529
Ed Allcock: And then there’s there’s recitations of 2 provisions of the competing motions.
461
00:53:02.960 –> 00:53:08.479
Ed Allcock: A desk, a domestic company is only required to report beneficial ownership, information
462
00:53:09.050 –> 00:53:17.049
Ed Allcock: to Fincen under the Cta. If it is created by the filing of a document with a Secretary of State or similar office.
463
00:53:17.760 –> 00:53:21.609
Ed Allcock: then there’s a another. No condominium governing documents.
464
00:53:21.690 –> 00:53:28.780
Ed Allcock: including the Declaration of trust created under general law. Chapter 1, 83 are filed with the Secretary of State’s office.
465
00:53:29.050 –> 00:53:31.889
Ed Allcock: Then the Government says, plaintiffs have not alleged facts
466
00:53:31.900 –> 00:53:36.380
Ed Allcock: that would place their organization within the scope of Cta’s reporting requirements.
467
00:53:36.720 –> 00:53:43.359
Ed Allcock: The court sees no question, no reason to question the parties. Reading of the applicability of the law.
468
00:53:43.660 –> 00:53:47.860
Ed Allcock: The threat remains hypothetical. Given the limited facts before the court.
469
00:53:49.600 –> 00:54:00.069
Ed Allcock: So there’s an argument that is trying to be floated, that that that language creates an exemption.
470
00:54:00.680 –> 00:54:10.359
Ed Allcock: Now, this is what a court wrote in a 5 page decision again, in the middle of the decision. This is what happened in the second quarter, and in the 3rd quarter.
471
00:54:12.400 –> 00:54:13.740
Ed Allcock: It means nothing.
472
00:54:14.090 –> 00:54:20.090
Ed Allcock: What? What? What is imperative? What is the takeaway? Here is is
473
00:54:20.920 –> 00:54:26.689
Ed Allcock: Lewis wharf sought a decision from the court, issuing an injunction
474
00:54:26.760 –> 00:54:29.950
Ed Allcock: creating an exemption for their condominium.
475
00:54:30.130 –> 00:54:41.090
Ed Allcock: Ultimately the court finds that it will not do that, and it dismiss the case.
476
00:54:41.180 –> 00:54:53.139
Ed Allcock: says, you know. Accordingly, the court finds determining the statute’s constitutionality, at least on the present factual record before its enforcement has even been attempted
477
00:54:53.220 –> 00:54:56.010
Ed Allcock: amounts to rendering an advisory opinion.
478
00:54:56.120 –> 00:55:04.689
Ed Allcock: So one of the other things the court saying here is, since Lewis Wharf is is looking for an injunction for enforcement
479
00:55:05.420 –> 00:55:07.350
Ed Allcock: is, we’re not there yet.
480
00:55:07.880 –> 00:55:17.240
Ed Allcock: The and and it’s it’s very interesting. Lewis Wharf sought an injunction preventing the Government from enforcing
481
00:55:17.460 –> 00:55:19.890
Ed Allcock: the Government’s like, well, we’re not there yet.
482
00:55:19.980 –> 00:55:24.149
Ed Allcock: but we’re not at the enforcement stage, because you still have time to comply.
483
00:55:25.560 –> 00:55:31.500
Ed Allcock: The the decision does not grant an exemption.
484
00:55:31.520 –> 00:55:36.910
Ed Allcock: If if anybody is articulating that this decision
485
00:55:37.734 –> 00:55:41.599
Ed Allcock: grants an exemption for community associations.
486
00:55:41.870 –> 00:55:44.800
Ed Allcock: I would say that that is legally incorrect.
487
00:55:44.820 –> 00:55:50.301
Ed Allcock: The prudent thing to do is to file your Cta
488
00:55:51.400 –> 00:55:55.590
Ed Allcock: again you look at the last page page 5 of this decision.
489
00:55:58.130 –> 00:55:59.750
Ed Allcock: The court.
490
00:55:59.990 –> 00:56:12.019
Ed Allcock: the plaintiff, has not alleged facts that would render the alleged future enforcement beyond hypothetical or conjectural, the court allows the defendants the government’s motion to dismiss. So again.
491
00:56:12.370 –> 00:56:21.010
Ed Allcock: plaintiff Lewis Wharf brings a lawsuit, seeks injunction, seeks exemption. Court dismisses case, they get nothing.
492
00:56:22.890 –> 00:56:28.250
Ed Allcock: Ultimately there is no decision from a court that
493
00:56:28.260 –> 00:56:30.670
Ed Allcock: that has granted an exemption. Yet
494
00:56:31.130 –> 00:56:49.089
Ed Allcock: I got to go back to it until we have a clear directive. Whether it’s the 11th circuit, whether it’s the 4th circuit I don’t know. If Lewis Wharf intends to appeal this case, whether it’s the 1st circuit, whether it’s the United States Supreme Court, whether it’s a stipulation or an agreement.
495
00:56:49.710 –> 00:56:51.250
Ed Allcock: and I want to go back for a sec.
496
00:56:52.140 –> 00:57:00.009
Ed Allcock: So the the court suggests that the parties might have been in agreement.
497
00:57:00.290 –> 00:57:02.500
Ed Allcock: But again there was no agreement.
498
00:57:02.630 –> 00:57:08.540
Ed Allcock: I’ve gone through the pleadings the Federal Government sought to dismiss the case.
499
00:57:08.820 –> 00:57:13.669
Ed Allcock: The condominium opposed the dismissal.
500
00:57:14.226 –> 00:57:18.740
Ed Allcock: What the judge said about you know, and and how the judge.
501
00:57:19.800 –> 00:57:24.340
Ed Allcock: you know, manipulated, which which happens from time to time.
502
00:57:24.380 –> 00:57:32.810
Ed Allcock: The the judge, the judge, or the law clerk, will pull out what they need from the pleadings of the parties to get to the end result.
503
00:57:33.433 –> 00:57:39.919
Ed Allcock: Had the United States Government agreed that Lewis Wharf was not subject to it.
504
00:57:40.340 –> 00:57:44.140
Ed Allcock: they would have entered into a stipulation. They would have entered into an agreement for judgment.
505
00:57:44.260 –> 00:57:50.060
Ed Allcock: After this decision came down we went back to the Department of Justice
506
00:57:50.150 –> 00:57:57.520
Ed Allcock: in our Virginia case and said, hey? There’s some words about in here about the United States Government agreeing.
507
00:57:57.620 –> 00:58:00.330
Ed Allcock: And would you stipulate in our case
508
00:58:00.520 –> 00:58:11.929
Ed Allcock: and in our case is broader? Would you stipulate that that it does not apply to any Condominium trusts. Would you stipulate that it does not apply to any unincorporated associations in America, the United States
509
00:58:12.622 –> 00:58:14.399
Ed Allcock: in its territories.
510
00:58:14.850 –> 00:58:26.249
Ed Allcock: Would you stipulate that? They said, no, they would not. That’s not what they said. That’s not what they agreed to. That was not their argument in the case. That’s not what the court did. There.
511
00:58:26.350 –> 00:58:27.954
Ed Allcock: We’ve tried it,
512
00:58:29.050 –> 00:58:37.110
Ed Allcock: So, as I said, until we get clear directive from a court until we get a stipulation or agreement from the United States
513
00:58:37.270 –> 00:58:43.690
Ed Allcock: Department of Justice or Legislative fix.
514
00:58:44.310 –> 00:58:49.330
Ed Allcock: My advice is, keep in compliance. File your Boi.
515
00:58:49.510 –> 00:58:54.250
Ed Allcock: We’ve been set up since February of this year
516
00:58:54.270 –> 00:58:57.870
Ed Allcock: to do this for you, and to make it easy for you.
517
00:58:57.940 –> 00:59:02.450
Ed Allcock: We have a secure portal that allows
518
00:59:03.016 –> 00:59:08.559
Ed Allcock: and and I would say, what most of the management companies I work with, what they’ve done
519
00:59:08.590 –> 00:59:17.570
Ed Allcock: is they just say, look at, we’re gonna send you our associations, and we then track them down
520
00:59:17.740 –> 00:59:23.950
Ed Allcock: and and get them filed for you before the deadline. The secure portal is important.
521
00:59:24.720 –> 00:59:34.984
Ed Allcock: Not everybody has one and it allows for the transmission of licenses and
522
00:59:36.260 –> 00:59:39.150
Ed Allcock: passports or state issued Ids,
523
00:59:41.440 –> 00:59:43.600
Ed Allcock: through a method other than email.
524
00:59:43.770 –> 00:59:48.499
Ed Allcock: And and we’ve got like 4 factor authenticate. It’s very secure.
525
00:59:48.710 –> 00:59:51.909
Ed Allcock: And and then and then what we do is
526
00:59:52.170 –> 01:00:01.930
Ed Allcock: is we sort of heard the cats. I know. Somebody asked, well, what happens? If only 3 people we chase down the other 2. Make sure that the filing gets done. Once we file it.
527
01:00:01.940 –> 01:00:05.709
Ed Allcock: we provide a confirmation of that filing.
528
01:00:06.400 –> 01:00:13.060
Ed Allcock: And we have within our system a built in artificial intelligence
529
01:00:13.230 –> 01:00:28.700
Ed Allcock: that actually tracks. For example, when somebody’s driver’s license expires we are linked to the registry to keep updated with board Member resignations, deaths.
530
01:00:28.790 –> 01:00:31.910
Ed Allcock: transfers so that we can then
531
01:00:32.020 –> 01:00:45.519
Ed Allcock: shoot an email and say, Oh, looks like you got 2 new board members. We monitor the changes because the changes are just as important as the initial filing. They have to be done within 30 days. So this is not just
532
01:00:45.710 –> 01:00:49.160
Ed Allcock: a 2024 thing. It is
533
01:00:49.230 –> 01:00:55.358
Ed Allcock: a 2025 thing and 2026 thing unless we’re able to get
534
01:00:56.400 –> 01:01:09.819
Ed Allcock: some legislative or judicial relief in the coming years, which I’m hopeful of. But I don’t think it’s gonna happen you know, in the next 28 days, and and probably not likely to happen
535
01:01:09.870 –> 01:01:13.759
Ed Allcock: in early 2025, if it happens at all in 2025.
536
01:01:16.160 –> 01:01:19.869
Ed Allcock: So I I had a question from somebody that they’re the
537
01:01:20.170 –> 01:01:26.789
Ed Allcock: that that no one else will serve on the board, and each unit is less than 25%. There’s just
538
01:01:27.070 –> 01:01:34.849
Ed Allcock: one. If if there’s just a single board member. I I find that unusual most documents require a minimum
539
01:01:34.870 –> 01:01:36.220
Ed Allcock: of 3.
540
01:01:37.040 –> 01:01:45.054
Ed Allcock: But if you’re allowed to operate with a single, and you’re the only you’re the only board member.
541
01:01:46.600 –> 01:01:52.095
Ed Allcock: then then that should that should constitute compliance,
542
01:01:53.420 –> 01:01:58.590
Ed Allcock: the the other benefit of having somebody do the cta for you.
543
01:01:59.285 –> 01:02:03.519
Ed Allcock: And and this is where I found it to be tricky for associations.
544
01:02:04.270 –> 01:02:10.449
Ed Allcock: 1st of all, does one board member want to go around collecting other people’s data and then uploading it.
545
01:02:11.237 –> 01:02:13.680
Ed Allcock: The answer I found is, no.
546
01:02:14.248 –> 01:02:16.199
Ed Allcock: The the second issue
547
01:02:16.980 –> 01:02:31.459
Ed Allcock: is, who wants to be herding the cats? Hey, Bob, have you filed your boi yet. Hey, Jim, have you filed your Boi yet? Hey, Joan? And and then people lose track of that I think it’s
548
01:02:31.670 –> 01:02:37.460
Ed Allcock: and and then, and then they lose track or forget about it in in 2025.
549
01:02:37.580 –> 01:02:41.460
Ed Allcock: I think it’s better to work with somebody, you know whether it’s us.
550
01:02:43.170 –> 01:02:46.060
Ed Allcock: I know there’s at least one other law firm out there that has
551
01:02:46.090 –> 01:02:49.069
Ed Allcock: a secure portal and is is doing this.
552
01:02:50.330 –> 01:02:53.390
Ed Allcock: I I think I think it’s better
553
01:02:53.856 –> 01:03:01.580
Ed Allcock: to to work with an outfit that’s gonna keep you in. That’s gonna ensure compliance and then keep you compliant
554
01:03:01.610 –> 01:03:11.709
Ed Allcock: going forward. Because again, we have, you know, large potential for fines and imprisonment.
555
01:03:12.060 –> 01:03:17.548
Ed Allcock: So believe that’s it. If, unless there are any other questions
556
01:03:18.790 –> 01:03:21.639
Ed Allcock: I know it’s a lot. It’s a lot to unpack.
557
01:03:21.660 –> 01:03:23.960
Ed Allcock: I know that there are.
558
01:03:25.840 –> 01:03:30.280
Ed Allcock: There’s a lot of noise out there. It’s the end of the year. People are nervous.
559
01:03:31.910 –> 01:03:37.759
Ed Allcock: Yeah, again, I can only give the same advice I gave back in February.
560
01:03:38.420 –> 01:03:42.960
Ed Allcock: You know we were hopeful for some positive legal decisions.
561
01:03:43.030 –> 01:03:46.090
Ed Allcock: There have been no positive legal decisions.
562
01:03:47.660 –> 01:03:50.720
Ed Allcock: Notwithstanding what?
563
01:03:50.850 –> 01:04:05.010
Ed Allcock: What what messages are are being sent out there? Until there is an affirmative declaration from a court that it does not apply an affirmative declaration from the Doj
564
01:04:05.546 –> 01:04:10.009
Ed Allcock: via an agreement, or a stipulation, or a legislative fix.
565
01:04:11.780 –> 01:04:15.079
Ed Allcock: My! I think the prudent legal advice is to comply.
566
01:04:15.556 –> 01:04:20.308
Ed Allcock: If we can help you with that, send me an email
567
01:04:21.070 –> 01:04:24.599
Ed Allcock: If anybody wants a copy of the slides
568
01:04:24.830 –> 01:04:33.209
Ed Allcock: or the presentation, send me an email, and we’ll send it out to you. Obviously, if there are any further updates
569
01:04:33.940 –> 01:04:41.599
Ed Allcock: on this issue between now and December 31, st and obviously, I’m involved in
570
01:04:41.670 –> 01:04:51.170
Ed Allcock: 2 lawsuits, one in Alabama and one in Virginia. If there are any updates on those before the end of the year, or as going forward. You’re going to hear from it.
571
01:04:51.210 –> 01:04:51.885
Ed Allcock: It’s
572
01:04:53.240 –> 01:04:59.150
Ed Allcock: I I think. Ultimately we’ll get there, I think ultimately we’ll get to an exemption.
573
01:04:59.290 –> 01:05:01.330
Ed Allcock: It’s just going to.
574
01:05:01.490 –> 01:05:05.650
Ed Allcock: I I don’t. I don’t expect it to happen until
575
01:05:05.940 –> 01:05:15.879
Ed Allcock: you know 2025, or beyond probably late, 2025 or beyond. We’ll get there, but it’s just not there now, and until it’s there
576
01:05:15.970 –> 01:05:18.659
Ed Allcock: there’s a law that is staring us down.
577
01:05:18.730 –> 01:05:23.719
Ed Allcock: and I think we have to comply with it. We’d all love to say, Oh, you know.
578
01:05:25.730 –> 01:05:31.470
Ed Allcock: you know I I shouldn’t. I don’t want to file my tax returns, but we all eventually do file
579
01:05:31.640 –> 01:05:35.009
Ed Allcock: our tax returns, or at least most of us do, and if you don’t
580
01:05:35.491 –> 01:05:38.609
Ed Allcock: you might get away with it for a bit, but
581
01:05:39.033 –> 01:05:46.320
Ed Allcock: usually it comes back to bite you. So you know, as a lawyer, I think any prudent lawyer has to has to tell you
582
01:05:46.520 –> 01:05:50.369
Ed Allcock: that. That there is no
583
01:05:50.872 –> 01:05:54.799
Ed Allcock: we’ve tried for an exemption. It does not exist at the current time.
584
01:05:55.080 –> 01:05:57.649
Ed Allcock: and the prudent advice is to file. So
585
01:05:57.740 –> 01:06:00.800
Ed Allcock: that’s it. I’m gonna stop. If there are any
586
01:06:00.860 –> 01:06:09.099
Ed Allcock: questions anybody else wants a copy of the slideshow simply. If they want a copy of this presentation.
587
01:06:09.530 –> 01:06:15.429
Ed Allcock: let me know ed@amcondolaw.com. If you want any help?
588
01:06:15.986 –> 01:06:18.069
Ed Allcock: You know it’s getting tight.
589
01:06:18.110 –> 01:06:24.199
Ed Allcock: We’re busy at the end of the year. We’ve got so many people that we’re chasing down on this.
590
01:06:24.210 –> 01:06:27.001
Ed Allcock: If anybody wants any help on this
591
01:06:27.980 –> 01:06:37.440
Ed Allcock: simply let me know. Send me an email. We will help you. I know it’s tight. It’s the end of the year. We’re gonna have people working around the clock on this
592
01:06:37.520 –> 01:06:43.930
Ed Allcock: to help you. It’s unfortunate that we have to deal with a Federal law.
593
01:06:44.577 –> 01:07:00.229
Ed Allcock: You know. We we built our secure portal with this in mind. We’ve been telling people all year long not to wait to the last minute. But heck! I’m guilty of it myself. I I usually get my taxes over to my accountant
594
01:07:00.260 –> 01:07:03.789
Ed Allcock: sometime around April 13th or 14, th
595
01:07:03.820 –> 01:07:09.860
Ed Allcock: so I understand it. Everything in life is about deadlines. Everybody waits to the last minute.
596
01:07:10.324 –> 01:07:20.099
Ed Allcock: We’re here to help you. We will help you if you have any questions, legal questions, particular questions about Virginia, Alabama, Massachusetts.
597
01:07:22.110 –> 01:07:23.210
Ed Allcock: Send me an email.
598
01:07:23.440 –> 01:07:25.389
Ed Allcock: Call me. I’m here to help.
599
01:07:25.620 –> 01:07:27.069
Ed Allcock: Thank you very much. Folks.